The Passion vs. da Vinci Code

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is a result of a discussion between Frogman and Phillip (yours truly). Where I told Frogman that I would agree with him on the fact that the da Vinci Code was a very, very bad book.

    It is already well known that we disagree on The Passion.

    Rather than debating this on the "da Vinci Code" subject line, I am opening a new subject.

    Do any of you see any comparisons between the da Vinci Code and The Passion?

    Here is my point:

    The Passion may have Catholic ICONS, but it never questions the diety of Christ as the Son of God.

    The da Vinci Code says that Jesus fainted on the cross, married Mary Magdeline and their relatives are alive and well (St. Clair) and living in France. Jesus was ONLY important because he was a direct and PURE descendent of King David from both his Mother and Father's (Joseph?) side, therefore of the utmost in royal blood and this blood has remained pure to this day.

    The Passion shows Jesus dying on the cross and rising again.

    The da Vinci Code said Jesus either fainted on the cross or was secretly revived or whatever.

    The Passion has real Catholic things in it, but nobody has explained satisfactorily how they destroy the doctrine of Christ (as far as the movie itself is concerned). That is, if you look at the movie, by itself, without trying to make so much about the Catholic's "wrong" beliefs that are not shown in the movie.

    The da Vinci Code says the Catholic church sends out armed people to "take care" of the Knight's Templar who protect the "grail" which is actually Mary Magdeline's bones (the cup of Christ -- his wife) and keep them quiet. The Knights Templar were paid off for centuries until the Catholic church tried to kill them, to keep the secret that Christianity was not true.

    Frogman want to make Phillip believe that Phillip should understand Frogman's contempt for Passion, like Phillip's contempt for da Vinci Code. Phillip disagree!!

    Hop in folks!

    [​IMG]
     
  2. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,118
    Likes Received:
    319
    Here we go again, remember The Last Temptation of Christ?
    Christ has a dream, marries Mary Magdalene and has a bunch of kids, meets Paul (in the dream) and calls him a liar.

    [​IMG]

    HankD
     
  3. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    0
    Phillip:

    Do any of you see any comparisons between the da Vinci Code and The Passion?

    S&T:

    This is how the enemy works. If there is something that is REALLY bad, then the thing that is only partially flawed becomes acceptable. Since the DaVinci Codes is REALLY heretical, then the Passion, which is only partially heretical is a sure fire dynamic soul winning machine.

    Let's look at some similiarities of the two:

    DaVinci codes uses extra biblical information as it's story line.

    So does the passion.

    DaVinci codes uses mystical sources in it's story line.

    So does the Passion.

    The mystical sources for both movies are not acceptable by God's standards, except the Passion has a little more truth mixed in with the error and mysticism. Both are a contaminated product. Would you like to take a little dried buffalo dung and sprinkle it on your fresh garden salad? That is what both movies are doing, one more obviously than the other.
     
  4. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    No matter what you say dear brother Phillip, I will never beleive you can get apples from orange trees ;) [​IMG]

    hippity, hop
     
  5. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Were you a frogman as in Navy or use the name for another reason? Just curious. If It's none of my business, tell me. :D
     
  6. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, let's look at the comparisons of the Holy Bible and the Koran:

    They are both available printed in book format.

    They are both available in English.

    They were both printed on a printing press.

    They both discuss religious issues.

    They are both from ancient writings.

    They both talk about God.

    Get real and give me a break. This is the real world here. . . :rolleyes:

    You have said what you have said, now SPECIFICALLY tell me WHAT scenes in The Passion are going to have a negative effect on our doctrine? Be specific, please.
     
  7. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way, S&T, have you even seen The Passion of Christ?
     
  8. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    0
    Phillip:

    By the way, S&T, have you even seen The Passion of Christ?

    S&T:

    Four times. Two times in a screening. Twice in a theatre full of the general public, so I got to watch their reactions and hear their comments. Now, please tell me that mysticism and DIVINATION is acceptable by scriptural standards. I will explain my position using the facts to support my above comments on the "It is as it was...or was it " thread.

    Phillip:

    Get real and give me a break. This is the real world here. .

    S&T:

    Last time I checked, in God's "real world", mysticism and divination were forbidden, and hated by Him. Did He change His mind?

    [ March 17, 2004, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Spirit and Truth ]
     
  9. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Were you a frogman as in Navy or use the name for another reason? Just curious. If It's none of my business, tell me. :D </font>[/QUOTE]High School nickname. Friends still call me 'frog' or 'frogman'.

    So, when I registered here I just used my nickname for ease of remembrance. I began signing my name after some people (disagreeing with me on the church I am a strict landmarker) someone asked me for my church and pastor's name and implied I was posting my opinions and that I was hiding behind my screen name.

    So, I decided if it was important enough for me to respond to, and if it was what I beleive according to scripture, it then was important enough to sign my name to.

    Just want all things on the table. That way all know where I stand and later there can be no confusion.

    I enjoy these discussions. I am going to have a look at this book, may purchase a copy, why not, I have a copy of the Vedra, history of the Bhudda religion, "three ways of Asian Wisdom" (Including Zen), a copy of the book of Mormon, and several other books written by cults and what have you.

    I believe the only way to discuss the truth with folks is to understand what they receive as truth.

    As you know, regardless of my agreement or disagreement, the truth will withstand the most intense scrutiny and will in fact stand for eternity.

    I am busy now with the work in Cookeville and study aspects of church organization to determine my local churches position and needed position. I also have other responsibilities. I will learn what I can about this book and get back with you because I just can't keep my keyboard shut [​IMG]

    I also have a copy of 'Miracle at Philadelphia', and the basics of the Hindu religion. I have a copy of 'the greatest story ever told' (video); I have seen the last temptation of Christ.

    It is not so much that I wish to oppose something just because. I just don't think some things with so much confusion should be so received by Christians. Now, where that is found to be only my opinion, then I would hope the Lord will have mercy upon me for its error.

    My perception of this is that the da Vinci Code is not so widely received as an 'evangelical tool'. While the passion movie is proclaimed, regardless of the same mystical and doctrinal error it is claimed to have the power of God unto salvation, which according to Scripture is the gospel.

    More later...

    I tried to find a hopping frog for my first post in this topic. There is one online that I can use to hope clear across the post, when I find him, I will make him the celebrated jumping frog of BaptistBoard.com.

    Bro Dallas [​IMG]
     
  10. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I find you a jumping frog, I'll send him to you.

    Actually, at risk of saying this here, the book is an interesting read, if you like suspense novels at all. He's an "okay" writer, not near the Grisham level, but getting better as he puts out more books (he had several before this--that were just so-so). His conclusions are ALL WRONG though.

    It reminded me of the book (and I cannot remember the name) where the Jews in Israel were experimenting with cloning and created a full grown woman and lightning hit the bulding and she woke up and it turned out to be Jesus' sister. (Yeah, I know.) She corrected all of our religion that had gone wrong, was shot in Jeruslem and rose and disappeared three days later, only to find out the video tape filming her body in the morgue went blank for ten minutes. Yeah, right, I know.

    Okay, here is my issue. Let me give you an example. I have an unsaved friend who I have worked with for many years. We are very good friends and I'm working on him, but he believes in evolution and thinks anything about Jesus is a bunch of fairy tales. Now, this guy will not even bother to go see The Passion (no worry there), but he just LOVES these books I've been telling you about and can't stop talking about the da Vinci code and Holy Blood, Holy Grail, wondering if there is any truth in it. THESE books have made it harder for me to witness to him, not The Passion.

    Okay, call me stupid and I know I'm getting off subject, but there are not many posts. What does a "Landmarker" believe that is different than many other Baptists. My grandmother was from a Missionary Baptist Church (that used her last name) and was voted out by her husband, daughter and the other members because she visited the First SBC in the closest town (twice) because her other daughter went there. ..not kidding. I thought it was funny, but I was just a little kid, but since she couldn't drive and the church and its cemetary (as you well know about country churches) were connected to their property, she had no church to go to. After that time she and her husband slept in different bed rooms. They're both with the Lord now. I know they were both Christians, but they had their faults like all of us. They were more like two stubborn kids.

    Back to why I mentioned this; the church called itself a "Landmark" church for a while and a "Missionary" Baptist for a while. I think it depended on who they had as a pastor at the time. I remember as a little kid, wow they could SING. (My aunt was so loud and off-key, I wanted to climb under the pew.) They were always nice to us heathen Southern Baptists when we visited.
     
  11. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have still not provided me with any "specifics" in the movie that are not "doctrinally" correct that actually cause HARM to our doctrine.

    I can tell you the origin of a Christmas Tree was used by heathens to sacrifice babies, but that does not mean I am a sinner for using a Christmas tree today to celebrate the birth of my Christ. I can tell you the origin of baptism was not Christian, but Christians adopted it and use it.

    So, WHAT in the movie is so doctrinally incorrect....let's be specific so I can discuss it with you, otherwise you just keep telling me it is mysticism, etc. I can read mysticism into ANYTHING.

    By the way, I liked your excuse why you went to see it the last two times. If it is so evil, why did you need to go more than once? I will go see something once to know what I am up against, or read a book that I know is untrue, but every time you see something those impressions are burned into your brain. If you think it is a heathen movie, why four times? :rolleyes:
     
  12. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    0
    Phillip:

    By the way, I liked your excuse why you went to see it the last two times.

    S&T:

    Didn't make any excuses...must be thinking of someone else.

    Phillip:

    If it is so evil, why did you need to go more than once?

    S&T:

    Because if I am going to speak against something, I like to be knowledgableand have all my facts in order.
    If you think I was enjoying myself, you are badly mistaken. I am sure the satanists would enjoy the graphically enhanced denegration of the Savior.


    Phillip:

    I will go see something once to know what I am up against, or read a book that I know is untrue, but every time you see something those impressions are burned into your brain. If you think it is a heathen movie, why four times?


    S&T:

    Because that is what was needed. Maybe you should go again now that I have pointed out the error to you so that you can verify what I have said. Just go to the "It is as it was...or is it?" thread, print it out, and use it as a heresy checklist.The thread is being added to daily. I am not concerned about the "impressions" created out of error and mystical accounts. This movie is the greatest deception ever $old.
     
  13. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is the origin of Baptism?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  14. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is the origin of Baptism?

    Bro. Dallas
    </font>[/QUOTE]According to at least two history sources that I no longer have. And, I cannot verify this, Bro. Dallas, so I can't really use it to debate.

    Baptism was supposedly used by different "sects" or "cults" (not cult necessarily in today's bad version of "cult", but group of people) who hold certain doctrines and beliefs. I do believe the origin was among the Jewish people, but THAT I'm not absolutely certain about. Baptism was used to show or indicate that the person agreed with what that groups doctrines. Christians have taken it to show the burial and ressurection of Jesus (symbolically), which is fine. But, if you think about scripture (people being Baptised by John the Baptist), etc. and the beliefs Baptist hold that Baptism is necessary to "join the local church", it makes sense. When a person is Baptised at a local church, they are showing the world that, "Yes" they do indeed believe in the doctrines of that church. That is also the reason Baptists (most--especially conservative groups) will not accept the baptism of other denominations with different doctrines. Therefore, it is necessary to actually become a member.

    Supposedly, baptism was used by quite a few groups prior to John the Baptist time. This is debatable, and I will not say that it is absolutely true.

    Supposedly, the NT church and Jesus accepted this method of showing your beliefs in the group and this was another reason for Jesus allowing John the Baptist to Baptise him, to show the world that John's message of Jesus as the Son of God, is the true message, also agreed and approved by Jesus himself.

    This also shows how baptism is not necessary for salvation, but makes one wonder about the salvation of one who refuses to be baptised since we as Christians are told to follow the teachings of Christ and the practices of the NT church as described specifically in the Bible.

    Now, Frogman, whether or not all of this is true, I cannot say, but supposedly evidence has been provided that it was a practice predating the arrival of Christ on Earth, but I'm not going to argue with anyone who says it was not.

    Agreed? [​IMG]
     
  15. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed [​IMG]

    The reason I asked is that there is a question in John 3 vs. 25 I think, that may provide scriptural information.

    I have never been able to find where the Jews or other groups used immersion (which is what baptism is) for purification.

    Certainly, the cleansing discussed by the Jews is not the same, but then the question posed to John makes me wonder if the Jews didn't expect the messiah to baptize (immerse) in this way.

    Perhaps mostly speculation though. I just thought maybe I had found a reliable historical source I have not yet searched.

    If you do find something, let me know [​IMG]

    I read what ever I can get my hands on; whether I agree or disagree is not significant.

    So, I will resolve myself to not argue this point here.

    (Have I written enough, is the thread off topic yet? :D )

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  16. Phillip

    Phillip
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, my curiousity about the subject and origin is now very high. My pastor (who is very, very conservative) has also mentioned that baptism was used that way. He is a man who spends a lot of time studying. I'll ask him Sunday if he has some "backup" for his thoughts.

    Oh well, I'm heading home, its 6:00 here. I will, no doubt, be online later. I think we have both shredded this subject line. That's okay, I don't think anybody will mind. Have a good evening and God bless you! [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

Loading...