The Political View of Baptists

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by HisMercy, May 7, 2004.

  1. HisMercy

    HisMercy
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    First, this isn't meant as a general comment about all Baptists but it seems like it would be fair to say about the majority of Baptists.

    I've always wondered how being Baptist and voting Democratic go hand in hand. This would seem to nullify what is written in the Word of God. Certainly, not to say that Republicans are more acceptable in the eyes of God but just some of the basic differences between the parties do have biblical context. Can someone help clarify this?
     
  2. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Sure, I can clarify it.

    Democrats have a stated agenda that is in many instances unBiblical, such as favoring abortion, confiscatory taxation in order to re-distribute wealth, and government control of education.

    Republicans have a somewhat different and somewhat more biblical agenda. Then when they fool you into voting for them on that basis, they implement more of the Democrat agenda than the Democrats could hope to accomplish.
     
  3. HisMercy

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    Pennsylvania Jim,

    Can you give me some examples?
     
  4. Johnv

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    Preachers should not be dictating to its congregants how to vote. They should be instructing their congregants how to have consciences filled with the Holy Spirit, and then let the congregants vote their consciences. Many of those same preachers who condemn their congregation for voting for a pro-life candidate had great-parent preachers who condemn their congregation for voting for an abolitionist candidate. Go figure.

    There are way too many preachers to spend more time preaching the statute book instead of the Holy Book.
     
  5. Jailminister

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    It is not so much about Dem vs Rep. It is voting Right vs Wrong. If it does not line up with the word of God then you have to reject it. I know some good candidtes in both parties and in other parties also.
     
  6. Johnv

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    Not so in many cases. For example. it goes against the Word of God to take His name in vain. Yet few would support a law that makes it a crime to say g. d. in the privacy of your own home (especially during a football game :eek: ). Gluttony is a sin, yet few would favor a law that makes all-you-can-eat buffets a crime. And going back 150 years, a great many Baptists did not view the holding of slaves as a sin. And many who did see it as a sin viewed it as a necessary evil. Just 50 years ago, many did not think it a sin for a Christian restaurant owner to refuse service to a person based on that person's color. Just 30 years ago, many did not think it a sin to pay a woman less than a man for the exact same job.
     
  7. Shiloh

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    "Republicans have a somewhat different and somewhat more biblical agenda. Then when they fool you into voting for them on that basis, they implement more of the Democrat agenda than the Democrats could hope to accomplish."
    What kind of liberal garbage do you call that? VOTE FOR THE BUSH OF YOUR CHOICE.
     
  8. Bro. James Reed

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    Just out of curiosity, how do you know these are sins? Would we agree that if it isn't in the Bible we should leave it alone?

    All of these things existed at the time of Christ, but did anyone in any book in the Bible ever condemn any of these practices?

    I don't think we can really call these sins if they aren't forbidden by scripture, at least to some extent, or even tied to scripture in some form or fashion.

    While they may be wrong from a humanistic standpoint, are they really sins in God's eyes? Would he have not condemned these things in at aleast one of the writings?

    Your thoughts.

    Bro. James
     
  9. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Sure. I would start by pointing out that the Republicans now control the House, Senate, and White House. So, the policies now being implemented are pretty much what Republicans as a whole implement.

    1) Republicans traditionally claim to be for smaller, less expensive government. What have they given us? Huge expansion of the Federal government, and massive spending, far more than the Democrats have ever acheived.

    2) Republicans talk about local and parental control of education. What have they implemented? "No Child Left Behind", the biggest step ever to contol education from Washington, along with huge spending by the Federal government, and even more spending required at the state and local levels to comply with the wishes of the Federal government.

    3) Republicans (as a party) claim to be pro-life. They have not passed one measure that has saved one child, with 3800 per day being killed.

    I could go on, but I think this is enough to see that the Republican Party is not what it claims to be, and not what many Christians pretend it is.
     
  10. Johnv

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    Abortion isn't expressly mentioned in the Bible. Why do we use that excuse with slavery, but we do not apply it to abortion?

    I've seen several threads on this bb that condemn some Musims countries where women are treated like property, and where some forms slavery are still practiced. Is it a sin for the Muslim, but not the Christian??
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Even though Bush has the record for the most homosexual appointments in history and appointing the first openly gay ambassadors in history?

    That is NOT Biblical and should give Baptists and all Christians cause for consideration at the ballot box.
     
  12. Bro. James Reed

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    Number 1, the bible does tell of penalties for killing an unborn child in the OT. David also says that God knew him from his mother's womb, so that also tells that he was a child of God while in the womb and to kill David while in the womb would have been to murder one of God's children.

    Number 2, I am by no means condoning slavery, but my question was is it forbidden in scripture? I have never said slavery is ok for a Christian but not a Muslim. I don't think it's ok for anybody, but it is unscriptural? I don't think so as Christ admonishes those in bondage(slaves) to obey their masters. Would he tell them this if it was sinful? Seeing his other admonissions, I think Christ, if it were a sin, would have said obey your masters and likewise masters release your slaves.

    If it were a sin would Christ not have admonished the masters? :confused:
     
  13. Terry_Herrington

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    I am a democrat and a baptist.
     
  14. Johnv

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    Those verse do not expressly say that life begins at conception. However, the Bible is clear that we are human well before birth. It can be presumed that, at least to the point of somewhere before the second semester, abortion would be immoral. But the bible is vague prior to that. Hence, while I believe that elective abortions are generally wrong, to have big brother legislate the matter in its entirety makes me uncomfortable.

    I believe that what Jesus is addressing is the indentured servitude. Indentured servants were slaves to their masters in the realm of contractual agreement. However, slavery of the last few centuries has invloved literal ownership of another person. Jesus was not saying that one person is allowed to own another.
     
  15. Jeff Weaver

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    Baptist and Democratic are not as inconsistent as most here seem to think.

    1st. Abortion. Not in favor of abortions for birth control. Not in favor of outlawing them if the health of the mother is concerned either. The stated Democratic position is Safe, legal and rare. I can agree with that. Another interesting tidbit. Did you know that abortions decreased under President Clinton? I can dig up the reference If I have too, but you can google it and find it. I have also seen surveys that a good number of abortions are performed on girls in religious families who are afraid of their parents. Religious groups have to love the sinner, and hate the sin. Too often this isn't the case. When a parent says "I'll kill you if you do so and so" may be understood by adults as not a completely serious threat, but kids don't always see it that way. Religious people bear much of the responsibilty for the shame of abortion by their words and actions. A little love goes along way in curbing this.

    2nd. No Child Left behind is a big Republican push thing. From first hand observation, it is leaving many many behind. Teachers are teaching to the test, and not teaching to think. Many kids are great filling in circles with a number 2 pencil, but couldn't compose a coherent sentence if they had too.

    3rd. Taxation. Big complaint about Democrats is that they are redistributing wealth from the haves to the have nots. In my view this is better than the Republican alternative of transferring money from our kids and grandkids to us. Massive deficit spending is a Republican thing not Democrat. Which is worse. In my view putting the taxes on the kids is the more devious.
    Its either Tax and Spend or borrow and spend. Now the issues of what to spend it on are another issue altogether, and would require massive debate, which isn't possible here. Here in Virginia, the previous governor, a Republican, left the financial mess. The current governor, a democrat had to make the hard choices, and the republican legislature has made a complete mess of the current budget. Republican factions fighting other Republican factions.

    4th. Environment and corporate policy. Lots of republicans seem to think that the environment is for the exploitation of the corporations. God told Adam and Eve to keep the garden and dress it--not destroy it. Democratic iniatives have saved the lives of untold thousand/millions by OSHA and environmental legislation. Shouldn't be an issue between parties, but it is. President Nixon and Teddy Roosevelt, both Republicans initiated some of the best OSHA/Environmental laws on the books.

    5th. War. I don't personally know any Democrat who doesn't think we shouldnt be in Afghanistan. Problem is that job wasn't finished when Iraq was started. And that is a whole big mess, best left for another thread.

    6th. Patriot Act. This act is the first steps toward the U.S. becoming a dictatorship. Holding citizens without trial without charge, without counsel is completely against everything this country had been about for over 200 years. Snooping into the reading habits of its citizens is beyond comprehension, and yet, those provisions and others just as odious are on the books.

    In 2000 I was prepared to leave the Democratic party to support John McCain. I supported him as best I could, but after the dirty tricks pulled by G.W. Bush, put me back in the Democratic party. Give me John McCain on the Republican ticket in 2004 and I'm there. I plan, unless something happens to change my mind to vote for John Kerry this November. If something happens to make me think Mr. Kerry is unqualified or would be a poor choice, them I will vote for some minor candidate. No way, no how will I vote for George W. Bush.
     
  16. Ronald

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    The problem lies in gaining VOTES by a political candidate. Also the candidate must support his party's agenda or else he or she is never chosen to be the prime candidate for that party to begin with. Also candidates whether republican or Democrat, seek LARGE popular groups that will aid them in getting elected. If they do not get support from mass groups such as unions, pro abortionists, the Hispanic and black communities and even the gay rights movement they will not have a very good chance at all of being the president. Once again it is not about religion, but getting LOTS of VOTES.
     
  17. Johnv

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    Ronald, that may be so to a point. There are many exceptions. For example, California has a Senator named Diana Feinstein, generally a mainline liberal democrat. However, she's staunchly in favor of the death penalty, and has never swayed from that, even though the democratic party is anti-death penalty as a rule.

    On a sidenote, I always do find it interesting that, if you have a republican who's, say, in favor of legalized abortion, he/she is labeled a liberal. Yet, when a democrat takes a staunch pro-death penalty stance, that person is not labeled a conservative (except, maybe by hard-line liberals). Interesting observation.
     
  18. Ronald

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    Johnv

    Sure I agree with you. On one or two issues a candidate may remain staunch and unmoving, but to actually gain lots of votes the candidate MUST gain the majority of his or her votes from organized groups, such as the Labor unions, the black community, the Hispanic community, the pro abortionists, the women's groups and even the large gay community. Without their support a candidate has NO CHANCE of winning. America is NOT a Christian society any longer. It's sad but true.
     
  19. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Really? A candidate cannot win without the support of the gays and abortionists? There are far more Christians than either of these groups. The problem is that the Christians are supporting the same candidates who cater to the homosexuals and abortionists.
     
  20. Dan Todd

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    Johnv said:
    Even a stopped clock is right twice in the day!
     

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