Many on this forum claim they believe in universal total inability of fallen man. Yet, they claim that none prior to Pentecost were in spiritual union with God (which is indwelling by the Spirit as "union" demands indwelling) through Christ while they lived out their lives between physical birth and physical death because spiritual union (indwelling) was never obtained in their physical lives and not actually obtained or applied to them until the day of Pentecost. That is why some beleive they had to be retained in a type of purgatory state and were not free to enter heaven until Christ arose because they were not regenerated, indwelt, without spiritual union even after death. However, it is evident that DURING THEIR PHYSICAL LIFE on earth these pre-pentecostal saints epitomized and characterized by Abraham believed the gospel (Acts 10:43; Gal. 3:6-8) obtained remission of sins, justification BEFORE being circumcised (Rom. 4:6-11) and lived "by faith" (Heb. 11) and exercised all other fruit of the Spirit (joy, love, faith, etc.) but still in a unchanged FALLEN CONDITION in spiritual separation from God!!!!!!! So, can fallen man prior to Pentecost have fellowship with God, come to Christ by faith, have victory over the fallen nature while still in spiritual separation, outside of spiritual union, without new birth, without being "in the Spirit"? Can he come to God by faith and exercise all the fruit of the Spirit while in spiritual separation from God, without new birth without being "in the Spirit"? Is the fallen nature capable of doing all these things before Pentecost but not after Pentecost. Are all the spiritually dead (separated from union with God's Spirit) His spiritual people??????????? Remember, Pentecost did not occur until after the coming of Christ and thus could not have affected any aspect of their lives between birth and death, so to argue that upon Pentecost their spirits were finally brought into spiritual union with God does NOTHING for their whole lives lived on earth. How do Calvinists explain the SPIRITUAL ABILITY without any kind of actual spiritual union, or spiritual birth, since they argue that such spiritual union/birth was not possible until Pentecost?????? 1. Is the Pre-Pentecost fallen man capable of doing exactly what the Post-Pentecost fallen man is explicitly said cannot do (Jn. 6:44; 1 Cor. 2:14; Rom. 7:14-25; 8:7-9) apart from internal transformation by new birth, spiritual union (instead of spiritual separation/death) and "in the Spirit"? 2. Can the Pre-Pentecost fallen nature be overcome when the Post-Pentecost fallen nature cannot be overcome apart from being "in the Spirit (Rom. 7:14-25)????????? 3. If they were in spiritual union (indwelt by the Spirit) BEFORE Pentecost then obviously Pentecost has NOTHING to do with individual indwelling at all or with salvation at all. 4. If the prePentecost fallen man can do all these things without new birth, without being "in the Spirit" without being in spiritual union with God then so can the Post-Pentecostal fallen man. If the Post-Pentecostal fallen man cannot do these things without new birth, spiritual union, "in the Spirit" NETHER CAN THE PRE-PENTECOSTAL FALLEN MAN. NOTE. Since the fallen dead "spirit" is WITHIN man, for there to be any spiritual "UNION" between the human Spirit with the Spirit of God, there must be INDWELLING by the Spirit or no union exists as man's spirit is INSIDE his body not on the outside. UNION WITHOUT INDWELLING IS OXYMORONIC AND CANNOT EXIST. To be in spiritual UNION is to be indwelt. To have no spiritual union is to be "in the flesh" and "none of his" as spiritually separated/dead persons cannot be claimed by God as "his" people unless all fallen human beings are spiritually his people?????