The Pre-Reformation Church?

I found several hundred links, but not that one. I have read a lot about these groups over the years, and much of what you find, on the net and off, is contradictory. Best evidence I've seen is that the actual Albi were unorthodox heretics, and the actual Waldenses were not. And, given the confusion that exists because, as I said in a previous post, the RCs were not exactly precise about who they charged with what, it can get confusing. I remain open-minded, but the research needs to be solid and documented.

Having said the above, I agree with much of your basic premise, that there were true believers throughout the RC era. Again, read Verduin's book, you will love it. From the Donatists to the Lollards, to the Hussites, to the Waldenses, there were groups that protested against the RC church and were orthodox. From the Paulicians to the Bogomils to the Albi to the Socinians, there were groups who protested the RCs and were NOT orthodox.

 

Leonard Verduin isn't exactly an unbiased source of information. And I'm being extremely kind in my assesment here.

The Albigensen or Katharen (both are names possibly invented by the Roman Catholic Church by the way, we aren't even sure how they called themselves) were related to Christianity in the same way Islam is, as an original post-christian religion influenced by Christianity.

The Waldensen on the other hand (they still exist) are a real Christian denomination and have (ironically) nowadays cordial relations with Roman Catholicism.
The ideas of the Waldensen however were never such that they could be allowed to join the SBC.

 

NO one is an unbiased source. Verduin is close to it, however. Interesting. Verduin, a Dutch Reformed scholar, got in trouble with his own people for "Stepchildren," and was praised by Baptists and other free church people.

Another good source is "The Martyr's Mirror," a huge Mennonite work that makes "Foxes Book of Martyrs" look like a brief introduction. Schaff's history is also good.

 

Yelsew --

Wrong again. You really need to git yerself a copy of Ray Sutton's book on the covenant THAT YOU MAY PROSPER -- Dominion by Covenant and study the 5 principles which govern a covenant and how it works. One of those principles is that of HIERARCHY -- that is, the COVENANTAL HEAD of a people represents that whole group, and whatever he does, is done on behalf, in the name of, and in lieu of, that whole group.

That principle is the very one which got us into this whole mess. Adam, as the covenantal head of MANKIND, sinned, and guess what -- the whole blasted human race was separated from God. Billions and billions of people who never even sinned were born sinners and estranged from God -because of the principle of covenantal hierarchy.

The priests were in the position of covenantal headship and when they sinned and urged the crucifixion of the Lord, they brought this whole covenantal curse squarely down upon the shoulders of the whole nation. They acted in behalf of the Jewish nation, just as Adam acted in behalf of manind.


Cordially in Christ and the Blessed Virgin,


Brother Ed

 

According to the Bible, we are living in the kingdom of God. In Colossians 1:12,13, the Bible says, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of his dear son.

This was promised in Is. 2:1-4. It was fulfilled during the reign of the Roman kings. Mark 9:1,Luke 3:1,2, Mat. 2:1. It is the kingdom of Christ that will be delivered UP in the end of time. I Cor. 15:24.

By the way, one of the scholars mentioned in regards to the false doctrine of premillennialism
also predicted the return of Christ in 2000. I wonder why he is still here??? This is also his second attempt at predicting the return of our Lord.