The problem of Acts 13:17-20 in the modern english translations

Then how do you explain the dating changes throughout history in scripture?

 

Mythical? So, the words of Paul in scripture is myth?

Acts 13:20 And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet.

I believe Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit knew exactly what he was saying whether we can show these 450 years or not. But RAdam did show the 450 years all from the book of Judges.

I had never heard of this issue before, but once I examined the scriptures in Judges that just happen to add up to 450 years I am convinced that this is how Paul arrived at his number. What an amazing coincidence!

As I said, I had never heard of this issue before, but 1 Kings 6:1 does prove a problem for the 450 years of judges if these are taken to be chronological years. However, if Paul was speaking of aggregate years, then 450 years can be a completely accurate number even though the judges ruled less than 450 years chronologically.

And we see this today. You will see a law firm advertise that their 4 attorneys have over 100 years experience, even though the firm is only 50 years old. That is, the aggregate total of each attorney's personal experience adds up to 100 years. People are not confused by this whatsoever. And this may be how Paul was speaking when he said God "gave them judges". In fact, there is nothing in Paul's language that demands he be speaking of chronological years whatsoever.

I also agree with RAdam that we cannot rely on ancient dates determined by men. Historians still debate what year Jesus was born. If they can't nail that down (and they can't), I seriously doubt they could determine dates 2000 years earlier.

 

Different calendars were used throughout history. So how long is one year? 365.25 days? 360 days?

 

A year in the bible was still one year, they went by the stars. When the sun entered a certain constellation in the zodiac they knew it was time to plant, and when it entered another constellation it was time to harvest. The Jews went by the Moon to determine months, so some years they did have 13 months. But still, their years were exactly the same length as ours.

Here is a good article on Jewish time.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewish-time/

 

Oh, you are correct, many of the MVs assign the 450 years from the time the Jews entered Egypt in Joseph's time until they finally entered the promised land and divided the land by lot to the 12 tribes.

But that is not what the KJV says, it is clearly assigning the 450 years to the times of the judges, from the division of the land until Samuel.

So, both the MVs and the KJV cannot be inerrant as some here claim. One or the other has to be in error.

But whenever I have asked which is inerrant, the KJV or the MVs, the only answer I have gotten is that they are both inerrant. That is impossible.

So, I will ask you, you certainly seem to side with the MVs interpretation, is the KJV in error here?

 

And besides this, Greek is a translation itself, Jesus didn't speak Greek, neither did most of the disciples. If a translation must contain some error as some have said, the the Greek texts must contain error also.

Now here is a verse that is very different between the KJV and the MVs, 2 Samuel 21:19. Did you know that the MVs teach that David did not kill Goliath? They do.

ESV-

2 Sam 21:19 And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. [fn]

NIV-

2 Sam 21:19 In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim [fn] the Bethlehemite killed Goliath [fn] the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod.

NASB-

2 Sam 21:19 There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

All of these MVs (and others) teach that Elhanan killed Goliath. But what does 2 Sam 21:19 say in the KJV?

2 Sam 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

The KJV says something entirely different, it says that Elhanan slew "the brother" of Goliath.

Even little children in Sunday School know David killed Goliath, not Elhanan. :tongue3:

 

Step back from it all for a minute and answer me this question: Which is more like the real thing, the original or a copy? The original, of course. Now, take the same question, but the original was built using the metric system and it measured down to the millimeters, while the copy will have to be built using empirical measurements and can only be measured down to the eighth of the inch. Which is more like the original now?

God gave us His word in the original languages. These languages are extremely dissimilar to english. In fact, I see Hebrew as a language of halves because it only says half. Try going through the Psalms with an interlinear Old testament and you will see what I am talking about. The translators had to work really hard to get the English out of the Hebrew and even then I wonder how they came up with what they did. Greek is better but it is still pretty loose compared to English in many ways.

I wish I knew Hebrew and Greek so I could read the scriptures in the original languages. Since I can't I have to settle for English translations. I don't stop there, though, as I employ various study helps. while I may not know the languages I can stand on the shoulders of those who do or did.

God preserves His word in spite of any human errors, additions, or omissions. Actually, I praise God that the originals no longer exist as people would worship them just as the Israelites worshiped Nehushtan or how some worship the KJV.

I don't know if there was a copying error in 2 Chr. 36.9. When I get to heaven I will ask and find out, though. In the meantime it doesn't worry me a whole lot and doesn't phase me belief in God preserving His word.

 

Who says Jesus did not speak Greek? Even unlearned people often spoke more than one language back then. Greek was the language of commerce while Latin was the language of the government. Israel is a small place overall and was full of people from different places, each with their own language. Try studying up on the life and times of the period and you will see.

Even if Jesus did not speak Greek, the New Testament writers all used Greek to write it. Each one who wrote knew both Aramaic and Greek. They also had a little something that we don't... they had the God inspiring them to write the words. That one little fact is what makes the Greek with error contrary to your reasoning.

I have often wondered if this was another Philistine named Goljath/Golyath. the name means "exile" and the Philistines had many who were giants.

 

Here is the verse in the KJV from my Bible Explorer program - all of my print copies read the same.

19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. 2 Sam 21:19 (KJV)


It is my opinion that the KJV translators put the brother of in italics to make the verse match 1 Chronicles 20:5.

 

I think they wanted to reconcile 2 Sam 21:19 with 1 Chron 20:5 which reads:

And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam. 1 Chron 20:5 (KJV)

 

You're right. These KJVO "scholars," have poisoned some beyond measure and honestly think they answer to nothing or no one, including God and His Word.