The problem with Jn 3:36 referring to the Elect !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Jn 3:36

    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    The problem here if any of the ones that believeth not, but are under the wrath of God, if any of these be the Elect while unbelievers, then we have a serious problem, simply because Jesus does say that these unbelievers, under God's Wrath SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, but they will permanently partake of God's Wrath; This means they shall never see Eternal Life. Now this is the obvious conclusion we must come to if we accept the false teaching of many that the unbelieving of this verse refers to the Elect of God, however we reject that interpretation as a false teaching !

    On contrast, the elect, those Christ died for, being reconciled to God legally while they are unbelievers, the promise for them is this Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    The Unbelieving of Jn 3:36, shall not SEE LIFE, they will never be saved !
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    The text says no such thing! The word "beleiveth" in English is a PRESENT TENSE VERB and so is the Greek term it translates. The word "abideth" is a PRESENT TENSE VERB and so is the Greek term it translates.

    All John is saying is that as long as a person is PRESENTLY IN UNBELIEF they are PRESENTLY under the wrath of God and in that PRESENT CONDITION shall not see life - PERIOD!

    This is exactly what Jesus said in John 3:18. All human beings including the elect come into the world in a state of unbelief and in that state they are "condemned already" and continue under condemnation as long as they continue in that state.

    However, you don't care what the Bible says as you rewrite the scriptures to suit your nonsense and so you will dismiss the language of the Holy Spirit as you have done in the past.
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    the bib

    You are a liar, this post condemns your false teaching!

    [[personal attack edited]
    Thats if they are non elect, when the Elect are presently enemies, unbelievers, they shall see Life Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    The Non elect while they were being enemies, were still Justified or reconciled to God [By Christ's Death or Blood], and no wrath was abiding on them because God's Wrath had been propitiated in regards to them while they were unbelievers and enemies, [personal attack edited]
     
    #3 savedbymercy, Nov 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2012
  4. The Biblicist

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    What I said is grammatically accurate and that grammar completely repudiates SMB's assertions and is obvious by his response as the only response he is capable of is name calling.
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    What you have stated is theologically False. The Elect cannot be under wrath and condemnation while in Unbelief, for God's Wrath has been propitiated and they are reconciled to God by Christ's Death while being enemies. Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies or unbelievers, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Its nothing but satanic to state that the elect while unbelievers are abiding under God's Wrath. [Personal attack edited[, those who are abiding under the wrath of God in Jn 3:36 shall not see life, thats a promise, I do not care how much you deny it, [Personal attack edited]
     
    #5 savedbymercy, Nov 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2012
  6. The Biblicist

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    What I stated above is grammatically and theologically correct and no amount of name calling will change those facts.

    Grammatically correct interperted scripture determines correct theology not vica versa!
     
    #6 The Biblicist, Nov 3, 2012
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  7. savedbymercy

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    No its not, what you have stated is theologically erronous, and [edited] towards the Death of Christ and what it accomplished before God's Law and Jusitce for the Elect !

    The Elect can never be under God's Wrath at anytime, because Christ propitiated Him i their behalf, and because while they are being enemies, unbelievers, they have already been reconciled to God and received into His Favor. [personal attack edited]
     
    #7 savedbymercy, Nov 3, 2012
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  8. savedbymercy

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    [personal attack edited]
    Scripture says that those in Jn 3:36 not believing on the Son, Shall not see Life. Which seeing is future indicative in tense.

    Future means:

    The future tense corresponds to the English future, and indicates the contemplated or certain occurrence of an event which has not yet occurred.

    The indicative means:

    The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

    So there is no future hope of these Jesus speaks of in Jn 3:36 of entering into Life Everlasting.

    Now with the Elect, who are enemies and unbelievers, because they were reconciled to God by the death of Christ, the promise to them as unbelievers and enemies is this Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Shall be saved here is future passive indicative, these have hope of Salvation in the future , they shall be saved !

    Thats the difference between the unbelieving elect and the unbelieving non elect. Jn 3:36, those not believing cannot apply to the Elect, [edited]
     
    #8 savedbymercy, Nov 3, 2012
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  9. The Biblicist

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    There can be no FUTURE TENSE hope of eternal life as long as the present unbelief is the continuing action! There can be no FUTURE TENSE hope of eternal life as long as the present wrath continues to be the abiding action of God.

    However, when the present tense action is beleiving then eternal life is also the present tense reality. - "he that is presently beleiving is presently having eternal life"

    SBM would be right had John used the FUTURE TENSE to describe unbelief but he did not use the FUTURE tense to describe their state of unbelief. The FUTURE TENSE simply denies any hope DUE TO THE CONTINUING PRESENT CONDITION of unbelief and wrath!

    This PRESENT CONDITION of unbelief is exactly what Jesus said in John 3:18. All human beings including the elect come into the world in a state of unbelief and in that state they are "condemned already" and continue under condemnation as long as they continue in that state and there can be no FUTURE TENSE eternal life until that present condition changes from "unbelief" to "belief" as the first part of this text makes clear.
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    [Personal attack deleted], while the elect are enemies, unbelievers, the promise is that they shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    To be saved by His Life is Eternal Life ! Also I just proved it in post 8, [Personal attack deleted]!
     
    #10 savedbymercy, Nov 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2012
  11. The Biblicist

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    Salvation must occur while they are "enemies" or there is no reason for salvation. Justification must occur while they are unreconciled or there is no need for reconciliation. It is the "ungodly" who is justified not the godly as there are no such human beings existent!
     

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