The Purpose of Jesus Christ's Death

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Christopher, Mar 24, 2002.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher
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    Did Jesus Christ bear the sins of EVERYONE or only of a particular group?

    [Is. 53:11] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    [12] Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    [Matt. 26:28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    [Heb. 9:28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    By His grace, Christopher †

    [ March 24, 2002, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Christopher ]
     
  2. Paul of Eugene

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    It's all in how you look at it. Certainly Christ's atonement is available to every lost person should they accept His Salvation offer. On the other hand, none of His atoning work is going to be wasted on those who reject Him.
     
  3. tyndale1946

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    Many are the ones he accepted from the Father to save, because of his love of those the Father loved... Eternal Salvation is never an acceptance but a gift! God Forbid!... Never an offer! The many are only those Christ died for and no one else!... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ March 25, 2002, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  4. Scott_Bushey

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    Election is a discriminatory concept. The term itself excludes universalism. Surely Jesus did not die for lost souls that suffer in Hell!

    In HIM,
    Scott Bushey
     
  5. HankD

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    OK, I'm curious. If Christ death is for the elect only, what then is the scope and meaning of "the sin of the world" in this Scripture?

    John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    HankD

    [ March 25, 2002, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  6. Scott_Bushey

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    Hank,
    I am sure you will agree, Christ did not die for men who will perish? All that Jesus dies for *will* be fully justified and propitiated, He will lose not a one. Not one drop of precious blood will be wasted.
    This thread seems to be heading towards the topic of "Limted atonement". I suggest, instead of everyone beating a dead horse, refer to the boards archives. The terms, World, all, whosoever are dealt with in detail. This may help to answer your questions.

    In HIM,
    Scott Bushey
     
  7. Ray Berrian

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    One of the chief reasons for Christ's death was and will prove to be-- to make every human being without excuse when they stand before the Great White Throne Judgment. Christ died for every human being. He slams the door in no one's face. Note [Luke 19:41] If Jesus died only for His elect {special election} then Christ was 'window dressing and playing the hypocrite' when He 'wept' over those who will have to face Him, in the future, at the above mentioned judgment.

    Give some serious attention to John 5:40, John 3:16, I Timothy 2:4 & 6. Our responsibility is to interpret the Word, not to 'rubber stamp' the theology of that theologian who fled to Geneva.

    Respectfully,

    Dr. Berrian
     
  8. Chris Temple

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    Matthew 1:21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."
    John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
    John 10:15 "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

    Christ did not die to make salvation possible but to save the elect.
     
  9. Sularis

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    *sigh* why does no one understand the concept of Grace or the character of God?

    God died for everyone - for EVERY single person that WAS AND IS AND WILL EVER BE BORN!

    God's justice requires that all should have the opportunity to choose or reject Him. His justice would be flawed IF certain people could not choose Him but still go to Hell then they would bear no responsibility for those sins; because it would be their ancestors fault, and not theirs. If they cant choose - its not their fault. Justice demands that everyone gets at least ONE chance.

    God's mercy demands that He takes every step possible to make it as easy as possible for each and every person to come to Him. His mercy can also allow for multiple chances to repent. God made salvation EXTREMELY easy. He sent His Son to die for ALL of everyone's sins. All God requires us to do is recognize and repent.

    But even those two "opposing" viewpoints are NOT the basic core nature of God. That core nature as I hopefully assume everyone knows is LOVE. The two above traits of God spring out of this foundation.

    God loves the world
    Neither Jew nor Gentile, nor slave nor free - no differentiation in God's eyes
    - Love demands inclusion
    - Love demands growth
    - Love demands free will
     
  10. Kiffin

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    No, we all by nature have rejected him (John 3:18,36). If we start talking about justice then God could have rightly sent us all to Hell. That God chose any of us rebellious serpents and transforms us into a new creation is truly grace.
     
  11. Michael Estes

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    What is this I hear? Is this the beginnings of a "Member's Only" club? Where Jesus came to rescue only a few people? Read with me John 3:17---"For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." We're talking about Jesus coming to save the whole world here. Not just a few people in it.
     
  12. Sularis

    Sularis
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    From whom did we inherit that nature?

    Ourselves - that sinful nature was given to us in our wombs

    Yet even some NOT all electionist believe in the age of innocemce theory. But what would this very theory propose? that God will take those incapable of understanding to His arms if they die before they develop the ability to differentiate and choose.

    I am by my nature a rebellious being that God has every right to damn (thankfully Im saved), but I did not choose that nature of rebellion, but rather it was forced upon us as a result of Adam's choice.

    For by one man sin entered the world. However God in His justice, mercy, and Love provide a means of regeneration to get past that inherent flawed nature, and choose Him. The first refusal to choose or the choice against Him, is when we become responsible for our sins.
     
  13. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    This thread is best moved by the moderator to the Calvinism forum. But in response to your post:

    Useless ad hominem. Many of us do understand God's grace as revealed to us in Scripture, and we are awed and amazed by it.

    Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

    Then why is not every single person "that WAS AND IS AND WILL EVER BE BORN" not saved? If God atoned for their sins, why do they still go to hell? Isaiah 53 tells us what Christ did for his elect:

    4 ¶ Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
    5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
    6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
    11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.
    12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.

    So the questions must be asked:

    1. Are ALL PEOPLE healed by the stripes of CHrist?
    2. Have ALL PEOPLE had their iniquities put on Christ and forgiven?
    3. Are the many who are justifed ALL PEOPLE who have had their iniquities forgiven?
    4. Did he make intercession for ALL PEOPLE to remove their transgressions?

    Scripture is quite clear that Christ died to atone for the sins of the elect alone.

    It requires nothing of the sort. God's justice requires that God's wrath be satisfied against sinners. This was done by the propitiation of Christ's sacrifice for the elect.

    All the rest of your objections have been answered a myriad of times on the CvA forum. But your error is one of syncretism: God has done all he can, now man must do his part. Therefore, God awaits the decision of man to determine who will and will not be his eternal bride. So God, and not man is sovereign, for man can thwart the will and plan of God. That is a false gospel. Free will is a myth.

    John 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
    35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
    36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

    Eph 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
    12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
    13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
    14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
     
  14. Chris Temple

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    You best move on to John 3:18: "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

    Christ came to save his people from their sin, not the world.

    John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

    Are you a universalist? Then you believe a false gospel.

    John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
    12 "But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
    13 "The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.
    14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
    15 "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
    16 "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
    17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
    18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."
     
  15. DocCas

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    Canons of the Synod of Dort, 1619.

    Article III. The death of the Son of God is the only and most perfect sacrifice and satisfaction for sin; is of infinite worth and value, abundantly sufficient to expiate the sins of the whole world.

    Sufficient for all, efficient only for those who believe.
     
  16. Daniel David

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    Thomas, forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't that speak of the value of the blood? I think the issue is the purpose and/or availability of the blood.
     
  17. DocCas

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    Sufficient and available to all who believe.
     

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