The Rapture

See some good sources at Rapture Studies

 

ROBERTGUWAPO wrote: Mr. Wells, thou shalt rightly divide the Word of God!!!

I would really appreciate it if you would stick to sound debate. Demeaning your opponent does not win friends and influence people, even those who agree with you! Whether it is you or I who is "rightly dividing the Word of God," I'm sure it is both of our intents to do so. There are excellent biblical scholars on both sides of the fence on this issue, so please loose the "holier than thou" attitude.

Dr. Bob provided the evidence you requested so I thank him and will not duplicate what I have already provided. However, since you refuse to weigh evidence with an open mind, there is little to be gained arguing with you.

 

Dear Mr. Wells and Mr. Griffin:

1. 1Thess1:10 and 1Thess5:9 does not refer to the tribulation. The wrath referred to is God’s judgment, where 5:9 contrasts wrath with salvation. Sorry, no rapture here.
2. Revelations 3:10 does not even promise a “rapturous great escape.”

Matthew Henry says of the verse: “(2.) Another instance of favour that Christ promises to this church is persevering grace in the most trying times (v. 10), and this as the reward of their past fidelity. To him that hath shall be given. Here observe, [1.] The gospel of Christ is the word of his patience. It is the fruit of the patience of God to a sinful world; it sets before men the exemplary patience of Christ in all his sufferings for men; it calls those that receive it to the exercise of patience in conformity to Christ. [2.] This gospel should be carefully kept by all that enjoy it; they must keep up to the faith, and practice, and worship prescribed in the gospel. [3.] After a day of patience we must expect an hour of temptation; a day of gospel peace and liberty is a day of God's patience, and it is seldom so well improved as it should be and therefore it is often followed by an hour of trial and temptation. [4.] Sometimes the trial is more general and universal; it comes upon all the world, and, when it is so general, it is usually the shorter. [5.] Those who keep the gospel in a time of peace shall be kept by Christ in an hour of temptation. By keeping the gospel they are prepared for the trial; and the same divine grace that has made them fruitful in times of peace will make them faithful in times of persecution.”

Oooppss, no rapture here either! It is never God’s habit to rapture his people out of trouble.

3. Rev 16:15 talks about his coming like a thief. But, it does not refer to the timing of his coming! It refers to the manner of his coming—he will come surprisingly and unexpectedly. And when he comes, there will be no “secret rapture” here. That’s because he will come noisily! 1Thess 4:16 states that there will be LOUD COMMAND and a TRUMPET CALL. And the whole world will really know.

It is my observation that pretribs always base their arguments on verses, that upon close examination, negate their very position. Pretribs believe this position first, then look for verses to support their position, no matter how forced and mangled an interpretation. Instead, you pretribs should inspect the verses first, weigh them carefully, divide the word correctly, then arrive at a position.

Pretribs should also examine the history of this pretribulation nonsense. You will find connections to the occult, Jesuits, massive plagiarism….

There are a lot of extreme, fanatic KJVOs around because their pastor told them so, their seminary told them so…then they go about looking for verses to support such a position.

 

Dr. Bob Griffin,

I concur with you that the rapture is the next event in God's calendar. Your answer was to the point and stated well.

No one has to be a Rhodes scholar to understand that I Thessalonians 4:17 is Christ coming for His church and Revelation 19:14 is our Lord at the Second Coming followed by His saints who were already enjoying the felicity of Heaven.

Respectfully,

Dr. Berrian

 

Robert Guwapo,

I read these statements in The Apostolic Fathers edited by Michael W. Holmes. A Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary . . . [Baker Book House].

In The Letters of Ignatius to the Trallians he said, 'Ignatius, who is called Theophorus, to the holy church at Tralles in Asia, dearly loved by God the Father of Jesus Christ, elect and worthy of God, at peace in flesh and spirit through the suffering of Jesus Christ, WHO IS OUR HOPE WHEN WE RISE TO BE WITH HIM, which I greet in the fullness of God in the apostolic manner and offer heartiest greetings.'

As I read this I think of I Thessalonians 4:16&17. What do you see?

"Ray"

 

Dear Ray,

Ignatius was simply saying that we children of God will be with Him soon in Heaven. We will rise to Heaven because that is where we are going; Heaven is up there that is why we are "rising."

1Thess 4:16-17 simply says that God will come down from Heaven noisily, and collect us children, to meet Him in the air. It is plain and simple and there is no hint of any rapturist-escapist fare there. There is no indication in these verses that God will rapture us out of the coming tribulation. The manner of his coming, and not the timing, is talked about.

Please visit the whole of Matthew 24.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Robert Guwapo,

In The Letters of Ignatius to the Trallians he said, 'Ignatius, who is called Theophorus, to the holy church at Tralles in Asia, dearly loved by God the Father of Jesus Christ, elect and worthy of God, at peace in flesh and spirit through the suffering of Jesus Christ, WHO IS OUR HOPE WHEN WE RISE TO BE WITH HIM, which I greet in the fullness of God in the apostolic manner and offer heartiest greetings.'

As I read this I think of I Thessalonians 4:16&17. What do you see?

"Ray"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>