The rapture

freeatlast · Mar 3, 2004

What is your understanding of the rapture? When will it happen? Not a date, but in relationship to the tribulation. Also who will go in it?

I Am Blessed 24 · Mar 3, 2004

You will receive many answers to this question as Baptists are very diverse and there are many different denominations of Baptists posting here.

As for myself, I am pretrib. I believe the rapture will take place before the tribulation and all saved people (dead and alive) will be taken up in the twinkling of an eye.

I believe that I will be raptured at the end of Revelation 3.

§ue (waiting for the Uppertaker, not the undertaker)

Tim · Mar 3, 2004

I'm amillenial, so you probably don't want to hear my answer!

In Christ,

Tim

Thankful · Mar 3, 2004

I agree with you, Sue. That is what I believe also. I couldn't have said it better.

Artimaeus · Mar 3, 2004

Baptists are diverse but hardly evenly. I would venture to say that the vast majority are pre-trib.
Sue, (Root Beer in the glasses)

Dr. Bob · Mar 3, 2004

I believe in the imminent return of Christ (rapture up and be with Christ, not some yo-yo up then down then up then down), at any moment, for His bride. MAYBE TODAY!

I believe the earth and her people will then feel the wrath of God in a Tribulation (slightly longer than 7 years).

I believe Jesus will return WITH His bride and establish a literal 1000 year kingdom of righteousness on the earth

I believe that at the end of that, satan will be loosed for a short time, deceive the nations again, and God will destroy the heavens and earth

I believe that a new heaven and earth will be created in eternal righteousness

DeafPosttrib · Mar 3, 2004

freeatlast,

Please look in Matthew 24:29-31 and 2 Thess 2:1-3. What these saying?

Myself was pretrib before whilst IFB. NOw I am posttrib. Because pretrib does not fit with the Bible. I urge you to read and study the Bible yourself. You will find many truths about the rapture in the Bible.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

Jailminister · Mar 3, 2004

I am Panmillenialist. In other words it is all going to pan out.

donnA · Mar 3, 2004

Originally posted by Jailminister:
I am Panmillenialist. In other words it is all going to pan out.
Click to expand...

You sound like my pastor lol

I'm with Sue.

Psalm 126:6 · Mar 3, 2004

My attitude toward the rapture is the same as Evangelist Lou Rossi once said while preaching at my church:

"I'm so Pre-Trib that I don't even eat Post Toasties, Amen!"

I believe in the imminent return of Jesus Christ-it is the next event on God's prophetic calendar. Any day could be the day. Any night, He could come as "...a thief in the night." I'm looking, longing, and living for His return!

freeatlast · Mar 3, 2004

Thanks for the many replies. Let me say that I also am pre-trip. DeafPosttrib, thanks for the suggestion, but I have already done as you have suggested. I have well over twenty thousand study hours of the bible completed and intend to continue. Based on Daniel's 70th week I can see no way for there to be anything but a pre-triib rapture.
There is one aspect of the rapture that I disagree with and it has to do with children. Most today have mixed what is termed "age of accountability" in with the rapture. In other words most believe that all the children who have not reached the "age of accountability" will go in the rapture. I however do not.
Here is why. First the rapture is for the church which is the bride of Christ and the church alone.
Second there is absolutely no scriptural reason to believe that children under the age will go.
Third in accounts where God began to bring judgment on mankind in the past He did not spare the children of the world. For instance. At the flood only Noah and his wife, their children, and their wives went. All the children of the world were not spared, not even one. Yes I assume they went to be with the Lord if they were young, but they were not spared the wrath.
Also only Lot and his daughters were spared. There certainly must have been children in Sodom. None were spared.
I believe that the rapture will be no different. Now I realize that this raises a big question. What about those Christians who have children too young to accept the Lord? So let me explain what I believe could take place.
First I believe that we are in what one might call the Laodicean age for the church. The falling away I believe is taking place today and growing at an ever greater pace. I believe that this will continue until there are but a VERY few real Christians left here alive. I do not believe that millions will go. When I say few I mean VERY few since most will be false professors of the faith. I believe that it is very possible that the Lord will not permit the few who are left to have children at the time of the rapture under the age of accountability. In other words they will be old enough to make a decision. Now I certainly expect some response and welcome any comments to the contrary that are biblically based or just plain speculation.God bless

Ed Edwards · Mar 3, 2004

Originally posted by Psalm 126:6:
My attitude toward the rapture is the same as "I'm so Pre-Trib that I don't even eat Post Toasties, Amen!"
Click to expand...

I'm so
prolific a pre-Trib defender
that i like to eat toasted Posties

Ed Edwards · Mar 3, 2004

Here is a thread i started
speculating on how many would get
raptured if the rapture were
to happen today. Unfortunately 2/3 of
the people on the BB who responded did
not choose to participate in the
poll.

How many is few?

I do know this, in Revelation chapter 7 right after
the rapture/resurrection there is
an uncountable number of the church there.
In the same book of Revealtion the number
200 Million is mentioned. So the
number of persons saved (the raptured
plus the resurrected) must exceed
200,000,000 by several factors.

I believe that 400 Million
of the 2,000 Million Christians
will be raptured, should the rapture
be this week.

Ed Edwards · Mar 3, 2004

oops, second post

michelle · Mar 4, 2004

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

--------------------------------------------------
Freeatlast quoted:

When I say few I mean VERY few since most will be false professors of the faith.
--------------------------------------------------

Freeatlast, I agree with you also. This above quote, there is actually scripture that valildates this. Jesus said, there are many who are called, but few chosen. Jesus also asked his disciples, will there be any faith when I return? Besides, the Apostle Paul spoke about the falling away. This is falling away from the truth. If apostacy increases, that means faith decreases.
Sorry for not including the scripture references, but I am getting sleepy, and about to hit the hay. I hope that we will hear any moment- the call from our Lord Jesus Christ to come up hither. Amen?

May the Lord richly bless you all.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

DeafPosttrib · Mar 4, 2004

This is falling away from the truth
Click to expand...

2 Thess. 2:1-3 telling us, our gathering together shall NOT come till we shall see falling away(apostasy)FIRST and the revealed of Antichrist.

Obivously, rapture cannot come till we shall see apostasy and the revealed of Antichrist first. 2 Thess 2:1-3 does not fit pretrib doctrine.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

freeatlast · Mar 4, 2004

DeafPosttrib
I think you are a little confused by the passage in 2 Thess. Here is what it says;

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In verse one there are two distinct events being mentioned, not one. One is called "the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ." The other is termed "our gather together to Him." The first is the return of the lord to set up the 1000 year rule. The second is language that refers to the rapture.

Someone had evidently sent them a letter using Pauls name and told them that they were in the day of the Lord and that they had missed the rapture. They then went into a frenzy with this news. Paul explains that the day of the Lord cannot happen until some time after what is explained in verse three.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He then goes on the give them some comfort.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

Paul had told them all that would take place and the order. In 1Th 5 he explains to them that they will not suffer the time of judgement that will come on the world. The reason is that they/we will be removed before it starts.

1Th 5:1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The tribulation is a time of judgement. The first half is mild and the last half is great judgement. But we as Christians will not suffer any of His judgement.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Once we put the passages in proper context they can then be understood.

brumleyj · Mar 5, 2004

I am posttribualtion and amill.

i argee with deafposttrib most pretrib doctrine does not fit well with bible. all you do follow the bible. according to 2 timothy 3:16, 2 timothy 2:15

2 peter 1:20-21

verse 20, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpertation.
verse 21 for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. KJV

romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. KJV

jbrumley
PS 27:1
amen

pinoybaptist · Mar 5, 2004

originally by freeatlast:

In verse one there are two distinct events being mentioned, not one. One is called "the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ." The other is termed "our gather together to Him." The first is the return of the lord to set up the 1000 year rule. The second is language that refers to the rapture.
Click to expand...

These are all of one event.
Why should the Lord Jesus Christ rule on earth for 1,000 years ? What is God's rationale for this ? Tell us, pray, how righteousness and unrighteousness can dwell together ?

This doctrine directly contradicts 2 Co4.6:14-16, thus saith the Lord:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Click to expand...

Why does your doctrine contradict the Bible ? Because according to your doctrine, during the millenium, Christ (who is holiness Himself), and the saints, both raptured from the earth, and those who came from heaven with Christ, (both groups made holy in body, soul, and spirit at that point [check out 1 Cor. 15:51-54]), will be living on this earth with unbelievers who are still alive at that point in time.

According to your theologians, the curse on this earth will be lifted at that point, because Jesus Christ will be reigning physically from Jerusalem, and every saint assigned his own kingdom.

Again, I ask, like Paul, if the Holy God, with his holy saints, are on this (at that point) holy earth, how can there be anything unholy such as unredeemed creatures, living in it ? What fellowship hath light with darkness ?

Has God changed ? What about "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images....
Isaiah 42:8", and, "Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, and today, and for ever", Hebrews 13:8. Where is the scripture that says these scriptures are temporary and stands only until the millenium begins, and goes in effect again after the millenium ends.

And then, if this earth has been made holy, the curse removed from it, because Jesus Christ is bodily reigning in it from Jerusalem, then in God's eyes it has to be "good", just as when He first created the earth, and saw that "it was very good". What more reason has He then to destroy it afterwards (2 Peter 3:10,12; Rev. 21:1; Isaiah 65:17) ?

Check out your doctrinal history, freeatlast. This whole millenium doctrine has never been historically a doctrine in Christendom until Halley came or whoever it was who wrote "Satan is Alive and Well...."

Historically, the big majority of Christendom has always held that there is one last day, in which the just shall go into everlasting glory and the unjust to everlasting punishment. The thousand years has always been, and correctly so, seen as symbolic language.

Ed Edwards · Mar 5, 2004

Originally posted by freeatlast:
DeafPosttrib
I think you are a little confused by the passage in 2 Thess. Here is what it says;

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In verse one there are two distinct events being mentioned, not one. One is called "the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ." The other is termed "our gather together to Him." The first is the return of the lord to set up the 1000 year rule. The second is language that refers to the rapture.

Someone had evidently sent them a letter using Pauls name and told them that they were in the day of the Lord and that they had missed the rapture. They then went into a frenzy with this news. Paul explains that the day of the Lord cannot happen until some time after what is explained in verse three.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He then goes on the give them some comfort.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

Paul had told them all that would take place and the order. In 1Th 5 he explains to them that they will not suffer the time of judgement that will come on the world. The reason is that they/we will be removed before it starts.

1Th 5:1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The tribulation is a time of judgement. The first half is mild and the last half is great judgement. But we as Christians will not suffer any of His judgement.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Once we put the passages in proper context they can then be understood.
Click to expand...

Amen, Sister Freeatlast -- Preach it!

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