The Rapture

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by th1bill, May 7, 2011.

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Do you believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God and therefore the Catching Away,

Poll closed May 14, 2011.
  1. Yes

    14 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. th1bill

    th1bill
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    For some time since my salvation I have been presented with a variety of ideas as to just what a Christian is and it has become very popular to lower the standard to allow greater numbers to come into the fold and to disregard what the Bible, the revelation of God and f His will for His people. Before I became a follower of my LORD, Jesus, the Christ, I thought the idea of any of the scripture being the truth. Since my conversion in 1990 my entire out look and my complete life has been regenerated and it is my firm position that every word of the scriptures, contained in the Christian Bible, is the God inspired truth.

    Now you have my statement of faith and we'll move on to the subject matter. The variety of beliefs today that attempt to be labeled 'Christian' run a very wide range from my position to 'the Bible is not the Word of God but the Word of God can be found there.' After the past 21 years of study, the one thing that I know for certain is that a saved man, woman or child are indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God! Now, on that basis and God's knowledge of what each of His Children needs I understand that the applied meaning of any scripture or group of scriptures will vary from Child of God to Child of God.

    As I have studied and as I have matured in my faith over the past two decades I have read and reread the scriptures. On each reading God has revealed new truths and all of them from the same scriptures. Not one lesson learned disagrees with any other lesson from a certain point in scripture but rather each lesson clarifies and magnifies the other. As the years have passed I have learned some great points I had not discovered yet and at the same time I have been used of God to teach some points others had missed until God revealed them through me.

    From all of this we have, what I am instructed to understand as twelve points of Christianity. I submit to you;

    Twelve Points That Show Christianity is True
    Truth about reality is knowable.
    The opposite of true is false.
    It is true that the theistic God exists.
    If God exists, then miracles are possible.
    Miracles can be used to confirm a message from God
    (i.e., as an act of God to confirm a word from God).
    The New Testament is historically reliable.
    The New Testament says Jesus claimed to be God.
    Jesus' claim to be God was miraculously confirmed by:
    a. His fulfillment of many prophecies about Himself;
    b. His sinless and miraculous life;
    c. His prediction and accomplishment of His resurrection.
    Therefore, Jesus is God.
    Whatever Jesus (who is God) teaches is true.
    Jesus taught that the Bible is the Word of God.
    Therefore, it is true that the Bible is the Word of God
    (and anything opposed to it is false)
    Copied from theologyweb.com
    Now we are at my point concerning the Rapture! The term rapture is not found in the English translations I have read, rather the term is used to codify the teaching of Paul in 1Thes. 4;13-18. In a recent post, in response to one of mine a slippery accusation was leveled at me that fell just short of accusing the person of not being saved. While in my post I had not even alluded to such I am guilty of believing every word of the scriptures and I have serious doubt of anyone that does not hold that position.

    So we have arrived at the point where I usually recommend self examination because I am not God and I can condemn no one, that is God's providence. As per Matt. 7, all of it, it is my place to judge/discern the truth and the criteria I am to use is to inspect their fruit. If a person tells me they do not believe anything the Bible teaches, their fruit is suspect! It all comes down to one point, if the Bible, the Holy Scriptures, teach it we must believe it by faith or we need to nourish our faith a bit more, one or the other.
     
  2. TomVols

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    Your question is fallacious.
     
  3. Zenas

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  4. preachinjesus

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    I can't answer the question in its wording.
     
  5. Tom Butler

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    Me, neither.
     
  6. th1bill

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    1 Thessalonians
     
  7. th1bill

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    I was very careful in the wording of the question. The two beliefs cannot be separated. The term, Rapture, does codify a teaching of the scriptures.
     
  8. John of Japan

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    I really can't tell what this thread is all about. I don't think the poll makes sense as it stands. I didn't vote because I wasn't going to vote "no" but I didn't know what "yes" would commit me to, though I do believe in a verbal-plenary inspired and inerrant Word of God. So do you believe in a rapture of the saints or not? I can't tell from your OP.
     
  9. Tom Butler

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    I'm in the same boat with John. Gotta be careful here. I think the real question is when does the "catching away" take place.

    Since I'm historical pre-mail (post tribber), I see a difference in the "catching away" and being "caught up to meet him."

    I also believe the return of the Lord Jesus in I Thess 4 and the one in Matthew 24 are the same event.

    So I'm like John, the poll question is not clear.
     
  10. Benjamin

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    First answer me this: Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no?

    ;)
     
  11. David Lamb

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    Like several others, I cannot really answer this poll, because I don't really know what you (Bill) have in your mind when you talk of the "Catching Away".

    I could certainly answer "Yes" to the question: "Do you believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God?"

    I could answer "Yes" if you had asked, "Will those Christians who are alive at Christ's Second Coming be caught up to meet Him in the air, as 1 Thessalonians 4.17 says.

    But you may have something more in mind when you ask your question, so for the moment, I'm abstaining. :)
     
  12. Allan

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    From the looks of it he is stating:

    Do you believe the Bible is inerrant and therefore believe in the 'catching away' [of the saints].

    So it appears he is making the argument that to not believe in the 'catching away' or better - rapture -, irregardless of when (this is a presumption on my part), sets one at odds with the consistency of scripture regarding it being inerrant.
     
  13. David Lamb

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    If that is all that is meant, I would answer yes.

    I just wondered if there was something else assumed - for instance, a particular eschatological "timetable", as in Hal Lindsey's "The Late, Great Planet Earth," of which Crawford Gribben wrote in an article in Evangelical Times:
    The Late Great Planet Earth
    presented a version of dispensational theology. Dispensationalism is a theological system that explains the relationship between the Old and New Testaments by emphasising their differences.

    It understands the next significant fulfilment of biblical prophecy to be the so-called ‘secret rapture’, in which Jesus Christ returns secretly to gather (or ‘catch up’) both living and dead believers and take them to heaven.

    After their translation to heaven, the antichrist emerges on earth to make a covenant with Israel, and for a period of seven years the rebellious earth faces ‘the tribulation’.

    After this, Christ returns with his people to destroy his enemies, judge the world, and set up his millennial kingdom.

    Following those thousand years of blessing, and one final revolt, the world may properly be said to end.
    So I say again that if the second part of the OP's question is simply asking me if I believe in the "catching up/away" spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4.17, my answer would be an unreserved "yes". I could not necessarily do that if anything more is meant.

    Apologies if I am being unnecessarily cautious!
     
  14. Allan

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    No problem brother, I was just stating that it 'seems', not necessarily that it is specifically what he meant. Yet since he didn't place a qualifier in there except that if scripture was indeed inerrant then one must hold to the position of the scriptural stance regarding the 'catching away'.

    So it is still guess work till he elaborates more :)
     
  15. DiamondLady

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    I didn't find the question posited to be ambivelent or confusing. I was, however, slightly amused that he would take his personal statement of faith from a website.
     
  16. Benjamin

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    Alan, when he uses the term “catching away” most of us know what he is talking about (something I might tongue in cheek refer to as “The Escapist’s Any Moment Fly Away Theology”). And Allan, when you likewsie refer to the “rapture” I am aware of your eschatological view, therefore there is a qualifier that is in sight and this ends up “loading the question”pertaining to believing the Word as inerrant. Attach the qualifier “resurrection” to inerrancy and we’d be good, but you guys ain’t gonna slip that loaded question by me. :laugh:
     
  17. OSAS

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    The Bible is inerrant, that much I can stand by. As for "Catching", if it walks, and talks like a "Rapture", then sure...
     
  18. th1bill

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    What in the world brought that on?
     
  19. th1bill

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    No apology required. It worries me when folks just do the Knee-Jerk and kick an answer out there. But being in my latter years and having been informed by my doctors that I have entered the final stage of MS, I hope the Holy Spirit always keeps the reins tight on this old war-horse and never allows me to establish nor to ever follow anyone's time tables by the LORD's and I can see His yet.

    I was careful to tie the event to the reliability of scripture because just as one objected to the framing of the answers, many will proclaim parts of the Bible to be the Word of God and that is just not true!
     
  20. th1bill

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    The question was very carefully composed and yes, if you believe the Bible is the Inerrant Word of God, as I do, you must also hold to the Rapture as being fact also.
     

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