The Reconciliation of the World

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jerry Shugart, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart
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    Was the death of the Lord Jesus on behalf of only some men or for all? Here we see that His death is said to be in regard to the "world":

    "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world (kosmos) unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor.5:19).

    The reconcilng of the world was made possible by the death of the Lord Jesus upon the Cross:

    "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself" (Col.1:20).

    However, the Calvinists say that in some Scriptures the Greek word translated "world" (kosmos) does not mean all men. That being true then what thought was Paul expressing when he used the Greek word kosmo?

    If Paul did not mean "world" then what word or words can be inserted into the "blank space" which supports the Calvinist view that He only died for some men?

    "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling _________ unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor.5:19).

    We should remember that any word or words placed in the blank space should be in conformity with the meaning of kosmos as given by the Greek experts.

    Thanks!
     
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    jerry

    Only some ! Those who did not have their sins imputed unto them. 2 Cor 5:19

    19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    We know this could not be everyone without exception because Paul writes of a world that is condemned for their sins 1 Cor 11:32

    32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
     
  3. Jerry Shugart

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    In these verses we can see that two different groups are being referred to because Paul uses the pronouns "them" and "us" and "you":

    "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God"</I> (2 Cor.5:18-20).

    Obviously the pronoun "us" refers to Christians and the pronoun "them" refers to the "unsaved." And it is equally obvious that when Paul says "not imputing their trespasses unto them" the pronoun "them" points back to those of the "world" whom God has reconciled unto Himself.

    If Paul did not mean "world" then what word or words can be inserted into the "blank space" which supports the Calvinist view that He only died for some men?

    "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling _________ unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor.5:19).

    We should remember that any word or words placed in the blank space should be in conformity with the meaning of kosmos as given by the Greek experts.

    Thanks!
     
  4. Gup20

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    Jerry, are you a proponent of Ultimate Reconciliation - the view that one day all people will be saved?
     
  5. Jerry Shugart

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    No, Gup20, I am not.

    I believe God has reconciled the world by the death of His Son but in order for anyone to come within that reconciliation a person must reconcile themselves to God:

    "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God" (2 Cor.5:18-20).

    A person comes within that reconciliation by believing God.

    Do you think that the Lord Jesus' death was on the behalf of all men or just some?

    Thanks!
     
  6. Gup20

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    I believe that his death was for all people, and his redemption is available to all mankind but not all will choose to accept it. Many will choose to reject it, in fact.
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    I don't think the correct answer is any different than how one interprets John 3:16 and the term world.

    It we understand "kosmos" to be the whole created order inclusive of mankind, then one of the three following idea's of mankind would be correct in both texts:

    It is either;

    1. All mankind without exception

    2. All mankind without distinction

    3. All mankind without exception or distinction.

    I believe it is #2.
     
  8. Jerry Shugart

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    Which Greek expert defines kosmos as "All mankind without distinction"?
    Here is what John Calvin said about John 3:16:

    "Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish. ...And he has employed the universal term 'whosoever,' both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers" (John Calvin, Commentary on John 3:16).

    So at John 3:16 JohnCalvin is saying that the word "world" means the "human race" and the "universal" term "whosoever" indicates "all mankind without exception."

    I await the name of the Greek expert who says that one on the meanings of the Greek word kosmos is "All mankind without distinction."

    Thanks!
     
  9. Tom Butler

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    This important. In 5:19, Paul is clearly saying that those whom he has reconciled to himself will not have their sins imputed to them.

    This leaves two interpretations. World means all without exception, so all will be reconciled and none will have their sins imputed to them; thus, they need not be punished. This, of course, is universalism.

    Or, world means something else. That is, ONLY those whom God has reconciled will not have their sins imputed to them.
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    Reconciling the world does not mean all men without exception have been reconciled, that is pure nonsense. Paul clearly states that involved in this reconciliation was the fact of non imputation of sin or trespasses 2 Cor 5:19

    19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    This world was not charged with one Trespass ! We know therefore it can not be those who shall die in their sins.

    The world here is the elect world, the gentiles and jews that have been elected. Paul uses a similar phrase to denote the gentiles in Rom 11:13-15

    13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

    14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

    15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

    Neither does it mean every individual in the world without exception here !
     
  11. Jerry Shugart

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    Let us look at the passage again:

    "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God" (2 Cor.5:18-20).

    In these verses we can see that two different groups are being referred to because Paul uses the pronouns "them" and "us" and "you." Obviously the "us" refers to Christians and the "them" refers to those who are not. So with that in view let us look at this passage:

    "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation"(Ro.5:18-19).

    Paul says not imputing their trespasses to "them," and this is obviously referring to those who are not believers. How can this be explained?

    During the present "dispensation of grace" the only Being in the universe who has a right to judge men is the Lord Jesus (Jn.5:22) and He is now sitting on the throne of God as a Savior and is not now judging men, as witnessed by His words here:

    "I judge no man...And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" (Jn.8:15; 12:47).

    The question of judgment was settled for believers at the Cross and they will not come into judgment (Jn.5:24). On the other hand, the judgment for those who continue in unbelief has been postponed to the day of judgment:

    "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished" (2 Pet.2:9).
     
    #11 Jerry Shugart, Dec 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2011
  12. The Biblicist

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    The term "kosmos" simply means "world" but it is used in a variety of ways. It can refer to the natural order of the entire universe. It can refer to the world system that is evil and is in opposition to God. It can be used as a hyperbole and simply means a great number of people. It can be used as synonym for "gentiles" in contrast to Jews (Rom. 11:11-13). It can be used for all mankind without disctinction to races, genders and soical levels of man.

    It is rarely used for all mankind without exception (Rom. 3:19-20).

    In John 3:16 Jesus is talking to a Jewish Rabbi who believed salvation was for Jews only and not for the "world" or all races without distinction. Jewish believers had to be reminded that the Great Commission was not limited to the Jewish disperia but to all nations (Mt. 28:19; Acts 1:8) even when they resisted going to Gentiles (Acts 10-11; 1 Jn. 2:2).

    The same is true with the Greek word "pas" (all) when found in the anarthous construct. It means "all" classes and kinds without distintion (1 Tim. 2:1-4).
     
  13. Jerry Shugart

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    Of course the Greek experts recognize that one of the meanings of kosmos is "the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    But I still wait for the name of a Greek expert who says that the word can mean "all mankind without disctinction to races, genders and soical levels of man."
     
  14. Tom Butler

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    I'll leave it to the Biblicist to the discussion of the Greek. I don't know Greek.

    But some of the scriptures he has cited plainly do not mean all without exception.
     
  15. Jerry Shugart

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    If he actually knows Greek then he should have no problem finding a Greek expert who says that one of the meanings of the Greek word translated "world" is "all mankind without disctinction to races, genders and soical levels of man."
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    It is not a matter of knowing Greek or the term being used. As I have already shown it is used in a number of different ways.

    For example, it is used of an EVIL WORLD SYSTEM that John says we are not to love! Do you think that is the same world God "so loved"?

    1 Jn. 2: 15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    Is that the same world in 1 Jn. 2:2

    1 Jn. 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    It is used of an evil system that Jesus would not pray for (Jn. 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.) is that God loved and we are to pray for (Jn. 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:1-3)???


    It was said that Paul turned the whole world upside down is that the same "world" Jesus did not pray for, we are not to love? Is that all mankind without exception?

    Ac 17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

    The Pharisees said that the world had gone after Christ! Is that every man ever born?

    Joh 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.



    Did Ceasar tax every last human from Adam to the final one born on earth? Or all humans without exception?

    Lu 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.


    Jesus said that the field was "the world"! Is that all men who have ever lived or the whole universe or just inhabitable earth???

    Mt 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one

    The term "world" is used in many different ways and some contradictory to others. My point is that it is not the term but the contextual use that determines its meaning.
     
  17. Jerry Shugart

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    Again,if your idea is right then provide a Greek expert who affirms the meaning which you want to put on the word. Or perhaps you want us to believe that all of the Greek experts overlooked a meaning of the word kosmos and you are the only person who is aware of that meaning. By the way, what are your credentials in regard to the greek language?

    Besides that, none of the examples which you gave are using the word kosmos as meaning ""all mankind without disctinction to races, genders and soical levels of man."
     
  18. Tom Butler

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    Maybe you can explain to me how "not imputing their sins" to unbelievers means something other than "not imputing their sins?" If world means all without exception, then how is this not universalism?

    Further, at the point at which the Lord Jesus does judge sinners, on what basis will he judge them if their sins are not imputed to them?
     
  19. Jerry Shugart

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    God is not NOW imputing the sins of unbelievers. During the present "dispensation of grace" the only Being in the universe who has a right to judge men is the Lord Jesus (Jn.5:22) and He is now sitting on the throne of God as a Savior and is not now judging men, as witnessed by His words here:

    "I judge no man...And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" (Jn.8:15; 12:47).

    But that does not mean that in the future the sins of unbelievers will not be imputed to them because they will.

    The question of judgment was settled for believers at the Cross and they will not come into judgment (Jn.5:24). On the other hand, the judgment for those who continue in unbelief has been postponed to the day of judgment:

    "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished" (2 Pet.2:9).
    As I said, if an unbeliever remains in unbelief when the day of judgment arrives then he will indeed be judged:

    "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thess.1:7-9).

    So to sum up the truth in this matter, during the present dispensation unbelievers are not being judged so their sins are not being imputed into their account. But if they remain in unbelief when the day of judgment arrives then that will all change and their sins will then be imputed into their account.
     
  20. savedbymercy

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    The world in 2 Cor 5:19 did not have their sins charged against them, so we know or should know that it could not be everyone in the world without exception. There is a world that shall be condemned for their sins at the Second Coming of Christ and the Day of Judgment 1 Cor 11:32

    32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

    Now this world certainly cannot be the world Paul mentioned in 2 Cor 5:19, it's impossible !
     

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