The Regulative Principle

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J.D., Mar 13, 2008.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    The regulative preinciple is described in this verse:

    Deuteronomy 12:32 (KJV) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

    Is it important? I know of at least three men whom God killed for not observing it. So where do we get off making up special services, children's church, plege of alliegence to the flags, altar calls, worship leaders, youth pastors, and such stuff?

    Did I miss anyone's favorite? Everybody mad? Okay go ahead and hit J.D. hard, he's got a hard head anyway! Just give me some scripture with your brick.
    :tonofbricks:
     
  2. Joe

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    Deuteronomy 12:32 (KJV) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no command to have a "party" after wedding vows. This isn't something "God commanded to be observed"
    Yet Christ attended the wedding at Cana (Beginning of John chapter 2) contributed to the festivities greatly by performing his first miracle-water turned into wine.
     
  3. John of Japan

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    Please elaborate.

    (1) Why does this statement from OT law apply to the NT church? "Free from the law, oh happy condition...."

    (2) Who were the three men God killed?
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Still bound to the old schoolmaster, huh?

    Oh yeah - scripture - how about Galatians 3v23-25?
     
  5. bbas 64

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  6. John of Japan

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    Good point, Roger. I think the whole book of Galatians is germane. Another good passage is 4:31-5:1, in which the bondwoman represents the law, but we of the churches are free from that according to 5:1.

    It seems to me that if the so-called regulative principle were true, then in the NT it would appear in the pastoral epistles. But the arguments I've seen (looking on the Internet) don't mention any passages from there, nor can I find any passage in the pastorals that seems to apply. (I just skimmed all three books.)

    Again, the NT passages which describe church services are remarkably free of detail and "how to" instructions, other than that there was preaching (and if a guy falls out of the window and dies you'd better be able to raise him), teaching and prophesying. There may not have even been singing. So if they were to be true to their "principle," the old time churches that practiced the "regulative principle" went too far even by singing the Psalms!! Thank God I live today and not then. :godisgood:
     
  7. J.D.

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    This has nothing to do with worship.
     
  8. J.D.

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    The regulative principle is described this way in the 1689 confession:

    "...the acceptable way of worshiping the true God is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshiped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scripture."

    It asks the question, "Does God tell us in His word how He is to be worshiped?"

    Does He?

    The New Testament heavily regulates worship. God has never said "worship me any way you like". Worshiping in the newness of the Spirit is freedom TO worship in spirit and truth, not FROM spirit and truth. Truth is prescriptive regulation, and the Holy Spirit does not contradict truth. Galatians tells us that we do not have to become Jews to be saved. Paul does not imply that New Covenant worship is unregulated.

    God killed Nadab, Abihu, and Uzzah for doing religion their own way. When I read through Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, I was asking God why He kept repeating over and over the intricate details of the tabernacle, the offerings, washings, etc. Then I realized - because HE WANTS IT DOEN HIS WAY! After all of that repitition, Nadab and Abihu was apparently unimpressed, and they paid the price.

    The New Testament says that the old testament was written for OUR learning (Rom 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11).

    But let's allow that we can disregard the law of Moses - but we can not allow that we can disregard the law of Christ. Did Christ leave us with no instruction? Of course not. Didn't he inspire the preserved words of Peter, Paul, James, Luke, Mark, etc.? Is not the Church epistles regulative? How about 1 Corinthians - any principles of regulation in there? Doesn't the New Testament contain SPECIFIC instructions on how we are to worship God? If so, what authorized us to add to or take away from it?
     
  9. J.D.

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    Does Driscoll see grace as a license to sin? Is that why he has no problem with using crude, offensive language in the pulpit?
     
  10. J.D.

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    Can you elaborate on how Galatians 3v23-25 authorizes man to invent worship methods not prescribed by Christ's word?
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I am not going to argue specifics, I am just glad to be freed from the law and he power of those who would steal my liberty.

    And that does it for me here :)
     
  12. J.D.

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    Fair enough my friends, but I would just ask you to consider that Galations releases us from ceremonial law (types and shadows, including circumcision) , but we remain accountable to God for his moral standards as they relate to Him (first four commandments) and to others (the next six commandments). As Paul said, in GALATIONS:

    "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid."

    Christ does not free us FROM service, but TO service.

    In fact, Galatians itself is regulative. Peter was rebuked for inventing a special class of separate Christians.

    Regulative principle: "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness;"

    Regulative principle: "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ." [What!! LAW? I thought we were free from law!]

    Regulative principle: "Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things." [Is this optional? Or is it God's law?]

    Okay, you probably get the point by now. Just think about it, that's all I ask.
     
  13. sag38

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    J.D. are you a Church of Christ devotee? After all this argument could be carried to say that there should be no piano, organ, stained glass, no sound system, no hymnals, no Bibles (people in those days didn't have one), no steeples, no Sunday School, no extra Biblical literature, no air conditioning, no electrical lighting, nothing called a pulpit... I could go on and on. The regulative principal would regulate the church right out of existence based on the logic that I've heard from you so far.
     
  14. rbell

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    Funny how when God does a work, there are those who choose to condemn that work because it doesn't fit in the nice box they have constructed as a residence in which the Almighty is supposed to "reside."

    Why not list 'em all...according to you...
    • A baptistry
    • the "little cups" we use for communion
    • Parking lots
    • indoor plumbing
    • Printed bulletins
    • Lighting in our worship facilities
    • Worship facilities themselves
    • Sunday school
    • Wednesday prayer meetings
    • Microphones
    • Pews
    • Hymnals
    • 1,000 more things I could list...
    Would all be "sinful."

    Does your post bother me? To some degree, yes. I'm not fond of someone questioning my calling. Of course, I could explain the spiritual basis on which I can support my calling....but your mind's made up, so what's the point.

    Here's the rub: There have always been folks that didn't like God operating in any way other than what they preferred. I guess some things never change.

    very well said.
     
  15. John of Japan

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    So where is the "regulative principle" in Galatians, or in the NT for that matter? This proves nothing at all. Where is a statement that we must only go so far as the Scripture and no further? That anything not specifically allowed in Scripture is forbidden?
    These verses do not prove the regulative principle position that we must go as far as the Word says but never do anything differently than what is specifically stated in Scripture.

    Frankly, the study I've done so far makes me think that the "regulative principle" as practiced in history was hypocritical. (This is not to accuse you of hypocrisy, J. D.) While they sang their Psalms (Where is that in the NT church?) and met in special church buildings instead of houses (Where is that in the NT church?) they condemned anyone who did things differently. To give just one example, the founders of the Sunday School movement were condemned. They thought, "How wicked to have a special class on Sundays to teach children to read and teach them the Bible." Idiotic!
     
    #15 John of Japan, Mar 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2008
  16. TCGreek

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    Hi John, while the Regulative Principle has good intentions, it has fallen short. Thanks for exposing that.

    You have Ruined the Regulative Principle.

    JD, I have to agree with John on this one.
     
  17. skypair

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    So you're saying that there are NOT many, many "good trees" in the "Garden of Eden?" Heaven's gonna be a pretty "tight" place for you, eh?

    skypair
     
  18. John of Japan

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    I'm all for basing all we do on the Word of God. I promised my preacher father I would do that when I was called to preach. But that includes whether or not to follow the regulative principle, and I just don't find it to be Biblical!

    I have to run to the church building (not in the Bible), prepare my message and Bible studies with the church/Bible institute PC (hmm...), copy off some Bible institute tapes (nope, no machines in the church in the Bible), finish the bulletin (hmm...nope, can't find it) and the like.

    God bless.
     
    #18 John of Japan, Mar 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2008
  19. Dale-c

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    The point is that you don't HAVE a point unless you can back it up with scripture.

    I don't see anywhere that says we must no longer obey the law.

    As you all should know, I really hate people adding to the Bible with laws like don't play cards or go to movies etc.

    BUt again, who gives us the right todo as we please in public worship?
    Also, for the ones who have brought up things like the air conditioning etc, we are NOT talking about circumstances. We are talking about the elements of worship.
    Public worship is NOT a matter of personal liberty.

    You do realize that the natural alternative is that anything not prohibited is ok right?
     
  20. Dale-c

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    John, we are not talking about PCs and tape machines.These are circumstantial.
    We are talking about adding and taking away from the elemets of Biblical worship.

    Do you have the right to substitute a buffet for the Lord's supper?

    Seems like they tried something like that.
     

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