The Republican Liberty Caucus

Discussion in 'Politics' started by church mouse guy, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    There has been a lot of talk that the Republican Liberty Caucus (RLC) has the same platform on abortion as the Republican Party. That is not true.

    Here is the statement of the RLC on the issue of abortion:

    Abortion is a critical life and death choice for every pregnant woman. Whether government should intervene to influence that choice is dependent on the legal status of the fetus. We acknowledge that there can be honest and ethical differences of opinion on that status, the rights of the woman, and the proper role of government.

    We favor civil discussion of this question, but take no position on the merits of conflicting legal, ethical, and religious viewpoints on either side.

    We oppose any allocation of government funds or resources to facilitate abortions, advocate in the public discussion, or to jeopardize the right of any woman to defend her own life and health.

    We support a resolution of this issue through the proper judicial and legislative channels specified in the Constitution.

    http://www.republicanliberty.org/docs/rlc2004_principles.htm

    Note the concluding statement of the RLC: "We support a resolution of this issue through the proper judicial and legislative channels specified in the Constitution."


    Now let's look at the GOP platform on abortion again under the section of Promoting a Culture of Life:

    As a country, we must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.

    Please notice that the GOP calls for "...a human life amendment to the Constitution..."

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showplatforms.php?platindex=R2004

    The problem with the RLC platform is that it does not rule out allowing the individual states to decide the issue but the GOP platform does rule out states rights on this issue.

     
    #1 church mouse guy, Mar 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2007
  2. church mouse guy

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    I never was able to get the bold and italics to post as written. I apologize for any inconvenience.
     
  3. church mouse guy

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    The question arises why there is a Republican Liberty Caucus if it is not to outline differences with the GOP? (That is a polite way of saying it.)
     
  4. church mouse guy

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    By the way, the GOP platform against abortion dates to 1984 and to Ronald Reagan to the best of my knowledge. I would like the self-called Reagan Republicans to explain why they do not support the cornerstone of the Reagan political agenda. Never mind; I really don't want to hear their excuses.
     
  5. church mouse guy

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    One of the founders of the Republican Liberty Caucus is against the death penalty. That allies him with the Christan left.

    Here is one of his statements:

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Pope’s commitment to human dignity, grounded in the teachings of Christ, led him to become an eloquent and consistent advocate for an ethic of life, exemplified by his struggles against abortion, war, euthanasia, and the death penalty. Yet what institutions around the world sanction abortion, war, euthanasia, and the death penalty? Governments. [/FONT]

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul244.html
     
  6. church mouse guy

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    Those of you who are saying, misleadingly, that Ron Paul is a conservative should try and explain what the Republican Liberty Caucus is all about and what kind of conservative opposes the death penalty. Some of you have even claimed that Ron Paul is the Christian candidate, so you could explain why Ron Paul is not a religious leftist on this anti-death penalty issue and this tribute to the late pope.
     
  7. billwald

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    Ron Paul is a Libertarian, as you all should be.
     
  8. JGrubbs

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    Can you name any of the other planks from the GOP platform that Reagan held as very important, that are no longer in the platform thanks to George W. Bush?
     
  9. church mouse guy

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    Of course, it is Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus that do not support the Reagan plank against abortion, as is quoted in the first post. By the way, Grubbs, you falsely charged that I misrepresented Paul but you can see for yourself what the Republican Liberty Caucus stands for. The RNC plank on pro-life is the same as Reagan's to this day.

    Some of you seem to think that abortion should have been easier to end than slavery, for example, which took over 80 years to end. And some of you who are complaining about the GOP performance (such as you, Grubbs) are not voters for the GOP but belong to other parties and work for other parties.

    However, I think that the Republican Liberty Caucus has the wrong way to go about ending abortion and same-sex marriage and they are certainly wrong about being against the death penalty for murder--an anti-Christ or religious left position--but then as Bill has pointed out, the Republican Liberty Caucus is really a bunch of libertarian party members or ex-party members. The Republican Liberty Caucus has not fully joined the GOP. Since they are not team players, they cannot be team leaders, as you can see.

    Grubbs, you never voted for Bush but Peroutka, and since we are talking primary candidates here, I wonder if you are going to say that you are a Republican just to vote in a party primary where you are not a member of the party and not a member of the team?
     
  10. JGrubbs

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    I don't think I have falsely charged you of anything, your the one who has implied over and over that Ron Paul wants the "states to allow abortions".

    Your the one that brought the Republican Liberty Caucus into the discussion. I have simply been quoting Ron Paul's numerous pro-life votes on federal legislation dealing with the abortion issue, and the piece of federal legislation that he authored and introduced that if passed would nullify Roe v. Wade. If you think those are examples of someone who doesn't think the federal government should have a say in the abortion issue, then there isn't much anyone can do to explain it to you.

    I would never change my voter registration to the GOP simply to be able to vote in a primary, I honestly don't think the liberal Bush adminisration or the liberal GOP leadership will allow Ron Paul or any other conservative to get the nomination. They have been working for too long to get the GOP voters conditioned to support the liberal, pro-aboriton, pro-homosexual, anti-Constitution candidates like Rudy.

    For years I have been accused of being a "single issue" voter on the aboriton issue, it appears that in this upcomnig election the GOP voters are going to be the "single issue" voters on the "war on terror", while all of the other issues like the National ID, the FTAA, the North American Union, illegal immigration, abortion, homosexual marriages, etc. are all being swept under the rug.
     
    #10 JGrubbs, Mar 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2007
  11. KenH

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    In Arkansas we don't register by party. Therefore on presidential primary day(we have early voting for two weeks so I may vote early) if Ron Paul in on the Republican Party ballot for president I will ask for a Republican Party ballot and happily cast a vote for Ron Paul. :)
     
  12. church mouse guy

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    Do you really think that Paul is your Christian brother?

    I don't think that you understand the Republican Liberty Caucus or the fact that everyone else has agreed that I am correct on what the Republican Liberty Caucus stands for. I don't know why you bother to post if you have nothing to say but to criticize the poster on something that you don't even bother to investigate. The idea that someone who is against the death penalty is my fellow Christian brother, as you wrote, sickens me. And since you are not GOP, I don't understand why you are so concerned with dictating terms to the GOP since we have proven that we can win without you. Evidently, making false accusations yourself is no concern to you. You might as well join Ron Paul in tribute to the late pope since he is the new wave in politics and politics counts more than truth. My prayer, Grubbs, is that you will put me on your ignore list and spare me your personal attacks.
     
  13. church mouse guy

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    The end of the Reagan era?

    To nominate a member of the Republican Liberty Caucus such as Ron Paul would clearly signal the end of the Reagan era in the GOP because the RLC would move to undo the GOP plank that Reagan laid against abortion. This would be considered a setback for the pro-life movement and that plank probably never would be restored to the GOP platform because it is expensive and difficult and time-consuming to keep it in place. It is impossible to think that Ron Paul, aka Dr. No, would ever agree to run on the current platform and become a team player when he also would overthrow Reagan foreign policy and allow states rights on same-sex marriage.
     
  14. JGrubbs

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    So is this part of your new Gospel message that someone has to support the death penalty to be your brother in Christ?

    I haven't personally attacked you, I just can understand how you keep claiming that the Congressman who introduced the legislation that recognized the personhood of all unborn babies by declaring, "human life shall be deemed to exist from conception." and would have removed abortion from the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, thereby nullifying the Roe v Wade decision, and would have denied funding for abortion providers, would work to remove the abortion plank from the GOP platform.

    You can keep claiming this over and over, but you are ignoring the fact that it was Bush that has already stripped many of the Regan era planks from the GOP platform, and it is Bush who has been working to get your 100% pro-abortion champion ready to be the new leader of the GOP. If anyone has destroyed the GOP it's the liberal neo-cons in the Bush administration.
     
  15. church mouse guy

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    You just can't get your facts straight.

    The GOP plank on pro-life is Reagan's; Ron Paul and the other members of the Republican Liberty Caucus do not support the GOP plank and are very careful to write their own plank, quoted above. No one who can read can possibly say that the two planks are the same.

    As for being against the death penalty, I am surprised that the Constitution Party wants to turn all murderer out from death row from now on. I consider that religious leftism a la Barry Lynn, and I would like to see a statement on Ron Paul's theological beliefs. I think that he is to the left of Rudy on that issue.

    As for same-sex marriage, Ron Paul is also wrong that the federal government cannot define marriage and I would say that his libertarian point on this issue is clear aid and comfort to all gays, lesbians, and transgendered persons.

    As for your Bush-bashing, it is general and incorrect and not only shows the Constitution Party for what they are but it also shows an indifference for the actions and thinking of Reagan. Bush would be closer to Reagan than Ron Paul any day of the week. And for that matter, Rudy would, too, if he were to agree to run on the Reagan platform in spite of his past opinions, which is probably what Rudy will do.

    As for the Constitution Party, it is my prayer that they will nominate Ron Paul and that they will go back to school so that they can understand plain English to learn how Ron Paul deviates from the GOP platform on life. Then maybe they will quit trying to say that Ron Paul is their Christian brother and that any criticism of his radical ideas is a direct attack on God's annointed.
     
  16. church mouse guy

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    One item in Reagan's 1984 platform was:

    Restore a constitutionally valid federal death penalty;

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showplatforms.php?platindex=R1984

    Contrast this with Ron Paul's well-known opposition to the death penalty and you see that Ron Paul is not a Reagan Republican.

    The same is true concerning Ronald Reagan's call for a constitutional amendment to end abortion. Ron Paul clearly opposes the Reagan platform concerning abortion.

    Here is what Reagan said in 1984:

    The unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We therefore reaffirm our support for a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment's protections apply to unborn children. We oppose the use of public revenues for abortion and will eliminate funding for organizations which advocate or support abortion. We commend the efforts of those individuals and religious and private organizations that are providing positive alternatives to abortion by meeting the physical, emotional, and financial needs of pregnant women and offering adoption services where needed.

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showplatforms.php?platindex=R1984

    (Under our constitutional system).

    Here is George W. Bush's platform on life in 2004, as quoted above:

    Now let's look at the GOP platform on abortion again under the section of Promoting a Culture of Life:

    As a country, we must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.


    For over 20 years the mainstream GOP has stood for a Constitutional amendment for human life. This comes from Ronald Reagan and others.

    Now Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus want to destroy the legacy of Ronald Reagan.
     
  17. Terry_Herrington

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    I know you are old CMG, but you made a rather unusual statement about a person having to support the death penalty in order for you to consider them a Christian brother. JGrubbs ask you about this and you ignored him completely. It is because even you see the stupidity of this statement or are you afraid to admit you were wrong?
     
  18. church mouse guy

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    The Reagan platform of 1980 on abortion--again differing from the Libertarians inside and outside of the GOP:

    Abortion


    There can be no doubt that the question of abortion, despite the complex nature of its various issues, is ultimately concerned with equality of rights under the law. While we recognize differing views on this question among Americans in general—and in our own Party—we affirm our support of a constitutional amendment to restore protection of the right to life for unborn children. We also support the Congressional efforts to restrict the use of taxpayers' dollars for abortion.
    We protest the Supreme Court's intrusion into the family structure through its denial of the parent's obligation and right to guide their minor children.

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showplatforms.php?platindex=R1980
     
  19. church mouse guy

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    Even the 1976 platform of the GOP was pro-life. Under the section about the American family, it said:

    a position on abortion that values human life;

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showplatforms.php?platindex=R1976

    Now here are the words of Ron Paul a year ago on the issue of abortion:

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"...Under the 9th and 10th amendments, all authority over matters not specifically addressed in the Constitution remains with state legislatures. Therefore the federal government has no authority whatsoever to involve itself in the abortion issue. So while Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across all 50 states would be equally invalid...."[/FONT]

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul301.html

    So we see that Ron Paul is against the GOP from 1976 through 2004 and against what Ronald Reagan stood for.
     
  20. church mouse guy

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    This issue has been debated many times here on the Baptist Board, youngster, and perhaps you missed the recent brilliant discussion of the issue by Pastor Larry. I consider those against the death penalty in one of two classes: orthodox Christians who have never thought about the issue as The Holy Bible discusses it and, secondly, religious leftists. As for Ron Paul's opposition to the death penalty, I think that we would have to put him in the category of religious leftist since he is taking a public position. In his specific case, if he hasn't considered the Biblical evidence, then perhaps he is unthinking, which would disqualifying him from the Presidency, in my opinion. I have documented where President Reagan called for the death penalty in the GOP platform so Ron Paul is clearly not a Reaganite.
     

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