The Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians

It might work for our gov't but not for what Paul was talking about. I think the "now" is important - applies then and now. There is no Roman gov't restraining anything that would connect to this.

 

Well, I disagree. Parents, the law, soldiers may help restrain evil, but they hardly restrain "the mystery of lawlessness." I think this phrase is significant and has to do with a great force coming against Christ.

If believers are removed, there is not anyone who truly opposes evil who is restraining it.

 

The moral of this lesson is : Be careful how you try utilize or read language, written or spoken in common parlance. It does not always like to fit nicely in the limited space of the boxes we create for it. Dictionaries, GK lexicons, etc. are often less than useful tools in Biblical interpretation. Simple words such as ‘He’ may involve the female sex as well.:wavey:

 

HP: The fact is that there is nothing in this verse to suggest that any believers are removed period. To read into it the rapture of the church is simply unsupported by reason or the text.

 

This is from the Greek text:
ἄρτι arti

It is supposed to say "He who now"

Maybe someone who knows Greek can tell us.

 

As I said before, I am not using this support the rapture. Other passages support it. But I am reading this with the rapture in mind and it makes sense to me.

I do not think that any endtime view has ironclad support in Scripture. That is why we will not resolve it. All the views - esp. amil and premil - have some support, depending on how you read the passages.

 

HP: Then what in the world is the Church doing making doctrine out of the pretribulational rapture conjecture as so many are doing as we speak? Others with other views no doubt make doctrine out of their positions as well I am sure.

 

Oh, good grief.

So, going somewhere to study and prepare to carry out God's calling is now part of the "antichrist system?"

First of all, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
Second, no one is "sent," particularly Baptists. People choose to go...in most cases (such as mine), after much prayer and seeking God. Perhaps you should try another approach. Calling us participants in the "antichrist system" is wrongheaded, stupid, and ignorant.

Are there schools of learning that have abandoned the fundamental tenets of the faith? Yes.

Are there people in seminaries/bible colleges for the wrong reasons? Yes.

But unless you butchered your intent when you posted your thoughts...then you have made a terrible accusation that is insulting and downright wrong.

 

HP: Say for instance the pope ends up as the anti Christ. That possibility is certainly conceivable. The system of the anti Christ is indeed a religious one not? Could he have schools of training for his followers? Could they be deceived even as God said many would be deceived in the last day to the point of even killing the saints thinking they do God a service? Why is it so strange that one could be part of the system of the anti Christ and think it is his calling and religious duty to go somewhere and study? Could not schools be in operation even today that in the end will have proven to be the tools of the enemy in the end?

 

The church makes doctrine out of all sorts of secondary issues. That is why we there are different views among believers.

Sure, others make doctrines out of their views. Are you saying amil or postmil are not doctrines?

 

I would imagine that training his followers to watch people through their TV screens is a basic course in the school.

 

HP: My quote above, in the post you are addressing, answer that clearly. :thumbs:

 

HP: Now you’ve gone to meddling in a lot of professing Christians minds. :tonofbricks:

 

I think someone needs to quit reading their fictional novals or maybe see a psyciatrist. And seriously - stop watching the "Da Vinci Code".

 

The Holy Spirit is the Restrainer.

This thread is pitiful. Why not take the Word for what the Word says instead of trying to read a lot of malarky into it?

The Holy Spirit is the Restrainer. The Holy Spirit is a He and is a Distinct Personality, one of which restrains evil. Another of which, "seals" the believer. With the Christians gone and the indwelling Holy Spirit which has sealed them gone, evil will make the world a terrible place to be for there will be nothing to hold evil in check and nothing of goodness. All goodness comes from God. Pray for your lost loved ones that they might come to Life now before the Great Tribulation. The Holy Spirit will also "seal" the 144,000 in Revelation.

Good Grief.

 

HP: Your example of Christian charity is well noted LE. I believe Adam Clarke was a good commentator, to just name one of stature that would disagree with you.

HP: Your confidence is the matter is unfounded and unsupported conjecture LE. It could be referring to many different entities or individuals. If it was in fact the Holy Spirit, I would have expected that reference to be capitalized. You would do well to add a bit of leeway to your hard and fast interpretation.

HP: Are you certain of this LE? First, a pretribulational rapture is not stated anywhere in Scripture. If it is, show us the passage that states it is. Second, why would anyone pray for anyone in the picture you paint? One might as well spend their time praying for the salvation of satan himself as to pray for people left in a world devoid of the Holy Spirit and all believers. “Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Are you suggesting that the Father draws apart from His Spirit? I would certain not believe that is possible. When the Holy Spirit is gone, all motivation for salvation is removed. There is no innate goodness within the wicked heart of man apart from God’s Spirit that will draw men to Himself period. No Holy Spirit? No salvation possible.

Furthermore, if one reads in Revelation as to what transpires after the rapture one will find these words, “repented not.” No where does it ever speak of any repenting after the wrath of God has began to be poured out. The only solution I see is that the believers will have to go through at least the first half of the tribulation before the rapture, and then the wrath of God is poured out and all that are left repent not and perish.

HP: I always thought grief was bad but maybe you are really trying to be kind, sort of like saying, “May all your grief be good” or something. Now that a kind thought. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Who is the Restrainer? I don't know.

I do observe that the view that the Holy Spirit is the Restrainer is predicated on believing in a pre-trib rapture. If one does not hold that view, then the HS/Restrainer view falls, because there is no scripture which explicitly states it.

I also observe that it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to be at some location and not in another. The Spirit is omnipresent, and cannot be otherwise. Therefore, it is impossible for the HS to be completely absent from the earth.

Now, the scripture says that the Restrainer will be "taken out out of the way," not "taken away." This gives the HS/Restrainer view some wiggle room.

It would also permit a rational explanation for the salvation of 144,000 Jews, who otherwise would have been saved without the work of the HS.

But if there is no pre-trib rapture.....

 

HP: No wiggle room here Tom. I hope she's skinny because she is in a mighty tiny box.