The Roman Empire

Discussion in 'Politics' started by pinoybaptist, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    My interest is piqued. The reason I am reading and watching (on YouTube) the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire is curiosity on what events were transpiring in the beginning and reign of Rome while, say, God was working on creating Israel and on to the birth of Christ.
    Interestingly, I noted that the given reason Rome had for expanding its empire and power was to "bring law and justice to those who do not have them", in other words, non-Romans they call barbarians, like Gaul and Germanica.
    Sounds a lot like America, don't you think ?
    Bring democracy and "Christianity" to those who do not have them.
    just saying.
     
  2. Bro. James

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    Israel was in a mess when Jesus was born. When Jesus started His ministry their apostasy was even worse. Jesus called their leaders hypocrites, blind guides and snakes. He said the Temple of God had been turned into a den of thieves.

    Not sure the House of Caesar had many benevolent despots. Some of them were really ego maniacs. A Roman Emperor and his mother started a religion in the 4th century which became the holy(?) roman empire. We have had such throughout history. The Roman legions went out to conquer--probably not to spread rule of law or The Gospel to the barbarians. They did bring back slaves after their campaigns of plunder, pilage, and rape; which is not without precedent even through today. The explorers of the 15th and 16th centuries were not really interested in converting savages. They were looking for gold. That quest continues even today. The world is not interested in spreading The Gospel, in fact quite the contrary.

    We seem headed for the last conflict--the One in the valley of Meggido.

    God will use that one for His Honor and Glory too.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    I haven't gotten to the 4th Century yet. I'm still at Nero's rule.
    That'll be interesting, the 4th century, per your description.
    Nero was the emperor when Paul was beheaded, from what I gather here.
    Agrippa seems to be both a Roman name and a Jewish name.
    There was a monarch named Agrippa, aparently Roman.
    Then there was King Agrippa of the Acts.
    I hope I am getting all these right.
     
  4. church mouse guy

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    Interesting question since Daniel foretold the Roman Empire. Of course, Israel was a nation before Rome. Rome was a militaristic state built on a type of Nazism but they did provide the Pax Romana, a Roman Peace sustained by military power so that Jesus could be born at the time of Caesar Augustus.

    As for the remarks about Constantine and his mother, they did not establish the Roman Catholic church unless you are a Catholic chauvinist and believe that Peter was the first Pope.
     
  5. pinoybaptist

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    You know, regarding Pax Romana, I read somewhere, a long, long time ago, that the reason Jesus Christ was born when He was born, was because under Rome, roads and highways will be built all over where the empire was, and God was going to use these developments as His highway for His people to bring the gospel to others of His people.
    Interesting theory, but one that hasn't quite settled in with me....yet.

    well, to be honest, I was once a Roman Catholic, but, not a Chauvinist, though....kinda like a Jew who is not really a Jew....ek, weak....lol....
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Pinoy....if you find it, The historian Will Durant wrote a book onthis very subject..... "Caesar and Christ " as part of his Civilization Book series. Veryi nsightful.:thumbs:
     
  7. Bro. James

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    That everything has been according to God's purpose, plan, pleasure and Divine Will(sovereign and permissive) is a fact. The Roman Empire has always been bad even when it was called holy. That collection of apostasy is still the largest so-called Christian group on the planet. Some of them were headquartered in Constantinople, the city of Constantine The Great. They still have a serious schism with their brethren in Rome regarding who got the keys of heaven, Mt. 16.

    This discussion belongs on the history blog--NT churches has nothing to do with the wonderful world known as Christendom.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  8. pinoybaptist

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    I heard of that book. I will look it up in Amazon. Thanks.
     
  9. pinoybaptist

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    History forum. Well. You're right. I will leave it to the Admins to move this, then.:thumbs:
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Maybe call a public library 1st.
     
  11. church mouse guy

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    I am not sure that this should be in the history forum especially. I think that politics has to carry cultural questions because there is no particular category for culture and cultural debates.
     
  12. poncho

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    Bread, circuses & bombs – decline of the american empire

    “Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: Bread and Circuses.” – Juvenal – Satire (100 A.D.)

    Roman satirist and poet Juvenal was displaying contempt for a degraded Roman citizenry that had shunned civic responsibility, shirked their duties of citizenship within a republic, and had chosen to sell their votes to feckless politicians for assurances of bread and circuses. Rather than govern according to noble principles based upon reason, striving for public policies that led to long term sustainability and benefitting the majority of citizens, politicians chose superficial displays and appeasing the masses utilizing the lowest common denominator of “free” food and bountiful spectacles, pageants, and ceremonies in order to retain power.

    The Roman Empire’s decline stretched across centuries as the gradual loss of civic virtue among its citizenry allowed demagogues to gain power and barbarians to eventually overrun the weakened empire. While the peasants were distracted with shallow exhibitions of palliative pleasures, those in power were debasing the currency, enriching themselves, and living pampered lives of luxury. The Roman leaders bought public approval and support, not through exemplary public service, but through diversion, distraction, and the satisfaction of base immediate needs and desires of the populace. Satisfying the crude motivations of the ignorant peasants (cheap food and entertainment) is how Roman politicians bought votes and retained power. Free wheat, circus games, and feeding Christians to lions kept the commoners from focusing on politicians pillaging and wasting the empire’s wealth.

    Read More At: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/09/bread-circuses-bombs-decline-american-empire.html
     
  13. Bro. James

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    This sounds like a description of the U.S. of A.-- today. We have an apathetic, complacent body politic re-electing corrupted politicians who bow to the various special interest groups--energy and drugs.

    We are eaten up with the circus too. Those high paid gladiators who chase pig skins are getting expensive to watch. Don't we realize most of this stuff is rigged? How boring life would be without applauding public brain concussions. It is probably better than feeding Christians to lions. Not sure if this rationale will stand up at the Bema Seat. Probably not.

    Time to repent and do the first works.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  14. church mouse guy

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    If the natural state of mankind is war, then perhaps the legs of iron, Rome, served to provide a long period of peace--the Pax Roma. However, we can note that Rome was a militaristic slave state where human rights did not exist in a modern state, although Paul was a Roman citizen and had his head chopped off as a drink offering since Roman citizens could not be crucified.
     
  15. poncho

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    Ah so that's the root of your thinking!

    No wonder you defend the neocon idea of Pax Americana so hard.

    Forget about freedom and the rule of law anything goes so long as it's for the "glory of the empire".

    Little wonder then our own republic is going the way of Rome's republic.
     
  16. church mouse guy

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    Nebuchadnezzar's dream

    Daniel 2:31 (KJV) Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness [was] excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof [was] terrible.

    32 This image's head [was] of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

    33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

    34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

    35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
     
  17. poncho

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    The decline of the Roman Empire can be attributed to a number of supportable hypotheses, which have been documented by historians over time. They include:

    Perpetual warfare depleted the treasury and wasted the manhood of the empire. The use of mercenary armies eventually led to the sacking of Rome by the very armies they had employed.

    Military overexpansion and spending resulted in resources being diverted from technological advancement, maintenance of the civil infrastructure, and worthwhile investments to support economic growth.

    Excessive welfare spending, oppressive taxation and currency debasement widened the gap between rich and poor, resulting in discontent, mistrust and rebellion.

    The emergence of an all-powerful centralized authoritarian government ruling by mandate, racked by corruption, and kept in power by bribing its subjects with promises of bread and circuses.

    Emperors and Senators became oligarchs and their conspicuous consumption provided proof of their corruption and decadence. The widespread corruption and incompetence of its leadership led to a waning in civic pride among the citizens.

    The decline in productive commercial and agricultural industries due to high taxes on producers, used to support the military empire, contributed to the circumstances that allowed barbarian invasions to succeed.

    The moral decay of the people was caused by the influx of slave labor from conquered territories, resulting in a decline in middle class work ethic, and the subsequent rise in the level of citizens on the dole. An economy based upon slave labor precluded a middle class with buying power.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/09/bread-circuses-bombs-decline-american-empire.html
     

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