The Sabbath- a much misunderstood Bible Text

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, Jun 26, 2005.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Romans 14:5 is a very often midunderstood Bible text, when it comes to the subject of the Sabbath Day. Many use it as a "proof" that God doesnt really care which day we regard as the Sabbath day, but by doing this they show that they misunderstand what is written there.

    Romans 14:5: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

    A Seventh Day Adventist named A.T. Jones wrote a 9 chapter piece on the subject of Religious Liberty and the Sabbath. This below is chapter 5 and how it relates to that verse in Romans 14:5:


    FROM the Scriptures it is plain that the divine right of individuality in religion stands supreme in the presence of autocratic monarchy; in the presence of any decree, statute, or law, of any government; in the presence of the church in control of the civil power; and in the presence of the church itself, even within the membership of the church.

    There is just one other possible relationshipthat of the individual to the individual. But when it is plain and positive by the word of God that no autocracy, no government of law, no church in control of civil power, and no church within the circle of its own membership, has any authority, jurisdiction, or right, in matters religious in the presence of the supreme and absolute right of the individual, then it is certain that no individual can ever have any authority, jurisdiction, or right over another individual in things religious.

    Though this is plain in itself it is well to study at least some of the Scriptures on this, as well as on each of the other phases of this subject.

    Faith is the gift of God, and to the individual. Jesus Christ is both the Author and the Finisher of faith. This being so, it lies in the nature of things that never by any possibility in righteousness can anybody but Christ have any authority, jurisdiction, or right, respecting the exercise of faith which is the vital element of religion. Christ being both the Author and the Finisher of faith, to Him alone belongs the sole sovereignty and jurisdiction in all things relating to faith and to the exercise of faith, which is religion.

    Accordingly the Scriptures say, "Hast thou faith? Have it to thyself before God." Rom. 14:22. Faith being the gift of God, and Christ being the Author and the Finisher of it, it is impossible, for any one to owe to any but God in Christ any responsibility in matters of faith or the exercise thereof, which is religion. And this is the ground and surety of complete individuality in religion.

    Therefore, the word of God stands written to individual believers forever, "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations": not to judge his doubtful thoughts; not for decisions of doubts; not to "judge him"; not to "despise him"; "for God hath received him." Rom. 14: 1-3.

    Please let there be noted forever, and forever regarded, that the reason, divinely given, as to why no Christian can ever "dispute" with or "decide" for or "judge," or "despise" another, is that "God hath received him".

    "God hath received him" therefore, "receive ye" him.

    "God hath received him" upon his faith, therefore, "receive ye" him upon his faith.

    Even though he be "weak in the faith," yet "God hath received him"; therefore, even though he be still "weak in the faith," "receive ye him."

    Even though he be "weak in the faith," it is "the faith" in which he is weak. And in that faith and by that faith he is saved. That faith is the gift of God, given to save the soul; and whosoever is in that faith, even though he be weak, has the salvation of God which is by faith. Of that faith, Jesus Christ is the Author and the Finisher; and whosoever is in that faith has Christ working in him to finish the blessed work of that faith unto the eternal salvation of the soul. That faith, the individual is to hold unto God the giver of it, and in Christ, the Author and Finisher of it. The faith being the gift of God through Christ, he who has it, has it only unto God in Christ; and in that faith his responsibility is solely to God in Christ.

    Therefore, "him that is weak in the faith receive YE, . . . for God hath received HIM." God being the giver of "the faith" through Christ, the Author and Finisher of faith, the responsibility of every one "in the faith" is to God in Christ. Therefore, "him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations, not for decisions of doubts," not to "despise him," not to "judge him"; for, since "God hath received him" "in the faith," and since "in the faith" he is responsible to God only, "Who art thou that judgest another mans servant?" Verse 4. This is impossible in righteousness even though he be a man's servant; how much more, when he is God's servant, received and accepted of God "in the faith?"

    Who then, art thou that judgest God's servant, received of Him "in the faith?" "To his own Master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up, for God is able to make him stand." And when "God hath received" "in the faith" one whom you and I will not receive "in the faith," then, where shall we appear? The question is not then between us and him, but between God and us. Our difference is then with God, and we have entered into judgment with God. But when we enter into judgment with God over His having received "in the faith," one whom we will not receive "in the faith," then it is certain that we cannot stand in that judgment; because we ourselves are not "in the faith."

    And when God will hold up, and will make to stand "in the faith," him whom you and I will not receive him, whom you and I will not hold up nor try to make to stand, then that one is altogether safe with God "in the faith." And even though he be "weak in the faith," yet God is able to hold him up and to make him stand, and "he shall be holden up" and made to stand by God who has received him "in the faith" of which God is the giver, and Christ the Author and Finisher. And as for you and me, in all this matter, "let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall."

    Another item that demonstrates the perfect individuality of man in things religious, follows immediately the words already quoted, thus: "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Verse 5.

    This Scripture does not say that all days are alike; but only that some "esteemeth every day alike." The Scriptures are perfectly plain upon the truth that all days are not alike: that there is a day that God has made peculiarly his own, and for man's eternal good has set it apart from all other days. That day is "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God."

    And though this is true by the word of God, yet as to the observance or non- observance of that day the word of the Lord explicitly declares, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." And in this declaration he has again confirmed the perfect supremacy and absolute right of individuality in religion.

    And, by the way, this item touches a matter that is everywhere rife today: the matter of the compulsory observance of a sabbath or day of rest. But in all things pertaining to the observance or regarding of a day, the word of God to all people is, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that regardeth not the day to the Lord, he doth not regard it." Verse 6.

    Any day regarded or observed nor to the Lord is not truly regarded or observed at all; for then there is nothing in it truly to regard. It is God who has selected, distinguished, and set apart, the day. The observance of the day pertains, therefore, to God; and lies only between God and the individual in faith and conscience. Therefore any observance of a sabbath or rest day enforced by law, by statute, by police, by court, by prosecution, or by persecution, is, in the first instance, a direct invasion of the province of God and of the realm of faith and conscience in the individual; and in the second instance is not even the observance of the day, and never can be, because it is not of persuasion in the mind.

    God has appointed his own chosen and sanctified day to be observed; that is true. He calls upon all people to observe it, that is true. But in the observance or regarding of this day, the word of God thus explicitly declares that it is wholly an individual matter: "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." And when any man is not fully persuaded in his own mind, and therefore does not observe the day to the Lord, his responsibility for this is to God alone, and not to any man, nor to any set of men, nor to any law, or government, or power, on earth.

    Following this item there is made an appeal in behalf of the recognition of perfect individuality in religionthis in view of the awful fact of the judgment of Christ and of God. This appeal runs thus: "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at naught thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment-seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Verses 10,11.

    Every one of us must stand before the judgment seat of Christ and of God, there to be each judged by Him. How then can it be possible ever in righteousness, that one of us can be called to be judged by another, or by any or all others, in the things of religion? that is, in the things in which we are to answer at the judgment seat of Christ.

    No, no. "One is your Master, even Christ, and all ve are brethren." And, "He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?" James 4:11.

    Thus, that there is to be a judgment-seat of Christ and of God where all must appear, each to answer for "the deeds done in the body" this is one of the mightiest guaranties of perfect individuality in religion, and one of the strongest possible pleas for the recognition of it by every soul always.

    Finally, the whole thought and truth of perfect individuality in religion is splendidly summed up, and powerfully emphasized as well as clearly expressed, in the inspired conclusion,

    "So then every one of us shall give account of HIMSELF to GOD." Verse 12.


    Please, if you would like to read the other chapters by A.T. Jones about the Sabbath and Religious Liberty, (and I highly suggest you do that because it involves YOU and the entire Christian World) ... you can go here:

    http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org/Individuality-in-Religion/chapter1.htm

    and to read more on A. T. Jones and his arguement before the United States Senate against the passing of Sunday Law... go here:

    http://maranathamedia.com.au/start/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=56

    and click on "National Sunday Law (Arguement of A.T Jones before the U.S Senate)"


    ...and just as a side note, but a very important one... many also completely misunderstand the Sabbath because of the the Pharisees in the time of Jesus who turned it into some sort of a legalistic practice. But Jesus came to "magnify the law and make it honorable [Isaiah 42:21]." Jesus showed how the Sabbath day really ought to be kept.

    To read more on this subject please go to
    http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org/Individuality-in-Religion/creation-or-evolution.htm

    [ June 26, 2005, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
     
  2. Claudia_T

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  3. prophecynut

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  4. prophecynut

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    Ellen White's own words from the above web site:


    [ June 26, 2005, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: prophecynut ]
     
  5. prophecynut

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    continued:

    Big revivals were happening in the United States during the 1830’s and many new churches/sects started up like the Mormons, Christian Science, Jehovah’s Witness, etc. There was a Baptist minister/scholar named William Miller who had about 200,000 followers and they were called the Millerites. Miller preached that Christ would return to earth on Oct. 22, 1843 based on his interpretation of Daniel 8:13,14. When Christ didn’t return on that date there was a falling out of some of the followers while others recalculated and realized they missed a year in the calculation so the date should have been Oct. 22, 1844. The revival resumed only to collapse when Christ didn’t come back again in 1844. What followed was called The Great Disappointment. Many believers left the movement disheartened. Ellen Harmon (Ellen White’s maiden name) was one of the ones who stayed to figure out what happened. The movement was saved when Hirum Edson and Ellen Harmon reported seeing visions of Christ entering the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary and concluded that this is what took place in 1844. So they believed this was the correct interpretation of Daniel 8:13,14. This offshoot from the Millerite movement became the Seventh-Day Adventist church. Sadly, this 3rd interpretation was also incorrect, but it has stuck with the church ever since. Over the years, some of the brightest scholars have left the church because of this doctrine and the use of Ellen White’s writings.
     
  6. prophecynut

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    Proof the official doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist churches is that the Mark of the beast is those who worship on Sunday.

    1. "Sunday-keeping must be the mark of the beast." ... "The reception of his mark must be something that involves the greatest offense that can be committed against God." (The Marvel of Nations, Elder U. Smith pages 170, 183)
    2. "Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible." (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23)
    3. "The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast." (Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850.)
    4. "The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church." ... "The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark." (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281.
    5. "The mark of the beast is Sunday-keeping. A law will enforce this upon Seventh-day Adventists. They won't obey. Then they will be outlawed, persecuted, and condemned to death! Of all the wild Advent speculations in the prophecies, this deserves to stand among the wildest." (Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914)
    6. "Sunday-keeping is an institution of the first beast, and ALL who submit to obey this institution emphatically worship the first beast and receive his mark, 'the mark of the beast.' .... Those who worship the beast and his image by observing the first day are certainly idolaters, as were the worshippers of the golden calf." (Advent Review Extra, pages 10 and 11, August, 1850)
    7. "the Seventh day, Saturday, must be kept; that keeping Sunday is the mark of the beast; that all should pay tithes; that Mrs. White is inspired as were the writers of the Bible; that the Bible must be interpreted to harmonize with her writings" (Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914)
     
  7. steaver

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    Good presentation of info prophecynut, yet those under Ellen's spell will ignore her ridiculous writings and continue on in her twisted faith.

    God bless!
     
  8. steaver

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    I'm sorry you believe all of that garb Claudia. It just amazes me how folks can take a painfully simple gospel message and work so hard and long at twisting it into uselessness.

    Tell me Claudia, I worship Jesus Christ seven days a week, does this cover me then for the "Sabbath" or condemn me with the mark of the beast because of Sunday?

    God Bless
     
  9. steaver

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    Also, you chose a good title, but ironically you do not realize that it is the Sabbath Keepers who are doing the misunderstanding! Good thing Ellen came along to clear it up for us, hey? Shake the dust off of your sandles and get out a there girl! Just say see ya! [​IMG]

    God bless!
     
  10. BobRyan

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    As it turns out -- I find a lot of agreement with the words of D.L. Moody on this topic.

    Particularly as it relates to some of the more common and less thought out objections to Christ the Creator's Holy day.

    Now I realize that those posting against Christ the Creator's own Holy Day - are claiming in effect "D.L. Moody was wrong" and I am sure you think all the seventh-day Baptists are "wrong" and so also anyone else who happens to honor Christ the Creator's Holy Day - "made FOR MANKIND" Mark 2:27 and predicted to be kept by all mankind such that "From Sabbath to Sabbath...shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66.

    But it is helpful to understand where the line is drawn.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Alcott

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    That's as far as I'm reading. You show stupidity by your rejection of that verse.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Good think D.L. Moody didn't stop reading Rom 14 at that point!
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Jones was not quite accurate there. The word "alike" is not in the text.

    "One man OBSERVES ONE day ABOVE another - whill another OBSERVES every day".

    This issue in Rom 14 "days" is the OBSERVANCE of the BIBLE's annual feast days (Lev 23) where ONE is selected OVER another -- and in other case ALL OF THEM are OBSERVED!

    The modern error is to take the case were ALL are OBSERVED and make it "NONE are OBSERVED" AS IF the text could be bent that direction!

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. Alcott

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    Better thing he didn't start reading stupidity like this topic.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Is this where I "repost" D.L. Moody's statement and you call his position "stupidity"??
     
  16. BobRyan

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    ProphecyNut and Claudia seem to be in a race to see who can post the most SDA literature on this web site.

    I vote a more "Baptist friendly" approach.

    D.L. Moody or scripture.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. steaver

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    Hi brother Bob, I knew you would show up here. [​IMG]

    I like what D.L. Moody had to say about it. In fact, Amen!

    Do you think that D.L. Moody had Saturday in mind when he wrote this? He doesn't mention anything about Saturday verses Sunday or any other day of the week, does he?

    God Bless!
     
  18. Alcott

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    You can if you like, and I will if I like. But you qualify sufficiently for that label yourself.
     
  19. BobRyan

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    Fine - here is what D.L. Moody said - that "you don't like".
    He was very insightful on these points of scripture. Though I don't agree with him on everything he ever said - he makes a great case here!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. BobRyan

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    You are right - sooner or later I would get to this thread.

    Moody did say that "for him" the day was Saturday simply because he was soooo busy on Sunday. And in his text he claims that Sunday is the day everybody else is using.

    His idea that 4th commandment can be edited to fit the traditions of man -- is not something I agree with.

    But if you look carefully at the arguments most common on these threads against Christ the Creator's Holy Day -- almost NOBODY argues that the 4th commandment is "edited" the way Moody does. They all oppose Christ's day by arguing that it is abolished.

    In other words they are challenging the truth of scripture on the VERY POINTS that Moody highlights as VALID!

    I find that facinating.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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