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The Sabbath by Christ in Isaiah

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Apr 20, 2011.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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  2. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    This is truly ironical

    DEUT. 4 [2] YE SHALL NOT ADD UNTO THE WORD which I command you, NEITHER SHALL YE DIMINISH OUGHT FROM IT, that ye may KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the Lord your God which I command you.

    And thats exactly whats goin on
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Which command?

    When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence. (Deuteronomy 22:8)

    Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together. (Deuteronomy 22:11)

    Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself. (Deuteronomy 22:12)
     
  4. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    ments

    DEUT. 4 [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    At the commandment of the LORD the children of Israel journeyed, and at the commandment of the LORD they pitched: as long as the cloud abode upon the tabernacle they rested in their tents. (Numbers 9:18)

    1. Where have you pitched your tent?
    2. Which cloud are you following?
    --There are plenty of clouds in the sky today where I am. Care to choose one?
     
  6. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    --It is not in Genesis. Moses (through the Lord) gave it to Israel. He never gave it to any other nation. There is no Biblical basis in Genesis 2 for any man to KEEP the Sabbath. There is no command there to keep the Sabbath. That command is only given to Israel, and Israel alone.
    But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (Exodus 20:10)

    Over and over again we are told that the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We know that the first day of the week is Sunday. The seventh day is therefore Saturday. That is not a difficult calculation to make.
    I mentioned in my post that there was more than one sabbath, but many sabbaths. However the Sabbath Day was on the seventh day, which we know as Saturday.
    The Sabbath was given only to Israel, as a sign of the covenant.
    Hebrews 4 teaches us that Christ is our Sabbath. We enter into his rest.
    The believer is no longer in bondage to the law.
    There is no command anywhere for the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath.
    The Lord's day is not the Sabbath. It is different. And your convictions concerning that day you may not impose on others. There is nothing dogmatic in Scripture about it. What we do know in Scripture is that the Sabbath is for the Jew and only for the Jew, and that there is no command for the NT believer to keep it.
    Your eisigesis doesn't work here.
    We don't live in the Millennial Kingdom. We live in this age of grace, the Church Age. And during this age there is no commandment to keep the Sabbath.
     
  8. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    Dr. Walter,

    Are you quoting me, percho, or DHK? The post below is my entire original post. Percho quoted me, I think, but when DHK quoted percho, only part of my original post got quoted and now I am very confused. Is there a way to straighten these quotes out?

     
    #28 Fred's Wife, Apr 30, 2011
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  9. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    You are simply not being objective with the evidence. You ignore the evidence I placed before you that proves the Sabbath command existed previous to the giving of the ten commandments and were part of God's commandments (Ex. 16). You ignore the fact that there is nothing previous to Exodus 20 upon which to base such a command except Genesis 2:1-4. You ignore the fact that Mark 2:27-28 refers to the Genesis 2 institution of the Sabbath. You ignore the fact that Exodus 20 is based upon the Genesis 2 institution and call Israel to "remember" and provides not evidence that the Sabbath was "made" in Exodus 20. You ignore the evidence that Christ refers to the Creational Sabbath and "the man" it was made for rather than "the Jew." You talk about eisgesis, your whole response is completely based upon eisgesis without any objective basis or exegetical response. Come on, let's be honest with the evidence rather providing a political response.

    Your logic is not logical. We are told it is the "seventh day" but we are not told it was the seventh day "OF THE WEEK." Nowhere is the Sabbath command limited to the seventh day "OF THE WEEK." It can include it but it is not restricted to it and that is obvious by the fact that the SABBATH command is applied to 1st, 8th, 15th and 21st days of the month. It is applied to "years" especially the 50th year and it is applied to "months." The very fact that the sabbath command is applied to other periods of time than the seventh day and to periods of time longer than a "day" demonstrates it is not to be understood as a restricted to the seventh day "of the week." Therefore, the Sabbath is not restricted to Saturday but may be applied to Saturday.


    We only know that the JEWISH APPLICATION was Saturday during the gospel not that the Genesis or Exodus command was Saturday. However, the Biblical application we know exceeds any particular day "of the week" but may be applied to the "month" or "year." We know that the feasts emphasize the New Covenant and the emphasis is the 1st, 8th, 15th and 22nd, 50th Sabbath periods of time not the 7th Sabbatical system.



    The Sabbath command was given to Israel with emphasis upon the seventh periods of time (day, month, year) but the Sabbath command exceeded the seventh period of times (day, month, year) and is inclusive of the 1st, 8th period of times (day, month, year). Mark 2:27-28 explicitly states it was given to "the man" not the Jew and the context has reference to Genesis 2 not Exodus 20 as even Exodus 20 has reference to Genesis 2 and the creational sabbath established by God.

    Hebrews 4 teaches no such thing. Indeed it teaches the very opposite. Look at verse 2 and tell me that "the gospel" was not preached to them as well as unto us!!!! Tell me that Acts 10:43 denies rest from sins penalty and charge! The fact is that they "as well as us" entered into the same gospel rest but still observed a Sabbath observance. Paul's argument is that the gospel rest does not fulfill the Sabbath (v. 2) neither does the rest in Canaan, nor the rest from all enemies in palestine under David. His argument is that the work of Christ establishes a sabbath day observance that will not be fulfilled until Christ comes again and ushers us into a NEW creation where we are at rest in spirit, soul and body in a creation at rest with God without sin (vv. 11-14).


    Hebrews 4:1-11 definitely teaches there "remains a sabbath day observance for the people of God" as the term in verse 9 is "sabbatimos" not "pauo" as in the previous verses (2-8). Psalm 118:24 definitely teaches the establishment of the first day Sabbath under the New Covenant. Mark 16:9 definitely teaches the establishment of the "first in a new series of Sabbaths" under the New Covenant. Revelation 1:10 definitely established a specific day set apart as owned by the Lord apart from other days of the week.

    You are simply avoiding the issue. The very words "the Lord's day" defines a day of the week set apart from other days as unto the Lord or else the very words "the Lord's day" are rediculous and meaningless. We do know how the term "kuriakos" was used and what it meant in the first century and we do know it is applied to observances of the Lord (1 Cor. 11:20). You are simply avoiding the evidence. You are not being object and your responses are purely eisgetical in totality.

    I did not apply the Old Covenant application of the seventh portion of time particular given to the Jews to post-cross Christians. I applied the 1st or 8th portion of time application of the Sabbath command to post-cross Christians. However, the Seventh portion of time application to the Jews is fulfilled in the Millennial age for the Jews but the jews as well as the Gentiles under the everlasting covenant enter the 8th thousand years or the 1st eternal day to the New Covenant fulfillment.

    Moreover, the whole Old Covenant application of the sabbath command has been abolished. Under the New Covenant the sabbath command where the application is the first day of the of the week or the "lord's day" is observed by worship in spirit and in truth - This is the day which the Lord hath made and we will REJOICE and be GLAD IN IT.
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    If you think you are confused you should be in my head. Trust me there's room in there.
     
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: (Exodus 16:11,12a)
    --The Lord was commanding Israel through Moses. What more proof do you need. Read the entire chapter. A command is a command. It involved: Moses, Jehovah, and Israel. The Sabbath has always involved Jehovah and Israel, and no one else. (I think you have been listening to Bob Ryan too much).
    That entire paragraph above gives no evidence why a believer should keep the Sabbath--none. In Genesis 2 there is no command to keep the sabbath; none.
    And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (Genesis 2:3)
    --God rested; God blessed it; God sanctified it. So what. There is no command to keep it. Who is doing the eisigesis?
    --You have not provided one verse in all the Bible that gives a command for the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath, have you?
    Who is not being logical? Please read Genesis chapter one again. Pay close attention to the creation account. Note that I believe in a literal 7-24 hour day creation. I don't spiritualize the account. There are 7 days in a week. On the seventh day God rested. (This is not rocket science.) After creating on day one, day two, day three, day four, day five, day six, then on day seven of that week God rested. Is it that difficult to understand?
    The reason it isn't Saturday? We didn't have one of our visitors from BB to teach Moses the KJV. He missed out on the English language. He spoke a derivative of the Hebrew language, but it was the seventh day nevertheless. It is restricted to Saturday (as we know because we speak the English language) because Saturday is the seventh day. I am speaking specifically of the Sabbath Day, the one mentioned in the Ten Commandments. Therefore no need to bring in red herrings about the other sabbaths mentioned in the Bible. I am fully aware of them also.
    Please keep it simple. "Thou shalt keep holy the Sabbath Day," one of the Ten Commandments. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to keep this command. It is given to the Jews and to their generations forever. It falls on a Saturday, the seventh day of the week. It is as simple as that.
    I have already explained this Scripture to you but you do not listen.

    And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28)
    The context:
    And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? (Mark 2:24)
    --He is going back to that which is written to the Jews. He is speaking to the Pharisees and making application to the Jews, not to all men. That is the context.

    The Sabbath was made for man; So was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and every other day of the week. The teaching was that the day was not to be a burden for man. It was made for man to enjoy. The day was made for man, not man to be a slave to the day, as the Pharisees had done.
    It was the seventh day, which is our Saturday.
    I believe you are confused.
    1. We are to enter into His rest. That rest is Christ. That same one who invited us to come and he would carry our burdens (Mat.11:28:-30)
    2. This in no way contradicts the gospel. Where did you pull that card from?
    3. No NT Christian is commanded to keep the Sabbath Day. The only people that do, that I know of are a cult. In fact the Bible says:

    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (Colossians 2:8)
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)
    --There were false teachers in Colosse. Paul corrects their teaching telling them that the Sabbath was only a shadow of the real thing--that real Sabbath being Christ. Our Sabbath, or Rest is Christ. We have already entered into it.
    Pure unverified opinion and speculation. I have already corrected you on Hebrews chapter four. The other references have nothing to do with the Sabbath.
    The "Lord's Day" was equated with the first day of the week, and therefore irrelevant to the keeping of the Sabbath.
     
  12. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    DHK

    The sins of Jeroboam and all who followed him in the house of Israel.

    1 Kings 12:32,33 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that [is] in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, [even] in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.

    That underlined and in bold was the replacement for this feast of the LORD.
    Lev.23:34,35 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month [shall be] the feast of tabernacles [for] seven days unto the LORD. On the first day [shall be] an holy convocation:(An annual sabbath) ye shall do no servile work [therein].

    I also said it appears where in Lev. 23 God calls the weekly sabbath and the feasts (annual sabbaths) his feast days and we know for sure Jeroboam changed one of them to the eighth month by the wording in Hosea 2 Where God refers to their feast days and their sabbath implies they may have changed the others also.

    That was the house of Israel that did that and they became scattered among the Gentiles not knowing who they were and neither did the Gentiles know who they were after time. They did away with their identifying sign the sabbath.

    The house of Judah, the Jews kept the sabbath and the feast days and everywhere they went in the world, they and the people knew they were Jews of the house of Judah because they practiced there customs including the sabbath.

    These two peoples have been two distinct nations since the death of Solomon thus the two sticks in Ezekiel and will be til the return of Jesus, the lion of the tribe of Judah who came unto his own the house of Judah, the Jews and his own, the Jews received him not. And other sheep (The lost sheep of the house of Israel) I have, which are not of this fold:(The house of Judah) them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock, [and] one shepherd. Compare to Ezekiel 37:21-24

    God said in Ezekiel 34 for his name sake he was going to gather from among the Gentiles a people. In Jeremiah 3 the same chapter where he speaks of giving the house of Israel a bill of divorce God says he will take one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: (The church) Compare this to Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

    Who did he foreknow?
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Enough to write VOLUMES on!

    So I'll stick to this (above) from Chowmah...

    Here's "Hebrews verses 8-10 : "BECAUSE if JESUS had given them rest and God after these things (through Jesus) won't ever speak Salvation again, a keeping of the Sabbath Day remains valid for the People of God _HE HAVING ENTERED INTO HIS OWN REST AS GOD IN HIS OWN!" "

    Alright, I should have written
    "...won't ever speak Salvation again.."
    more elaborately,
    "...won't ever speak of another _day_ or era or dispensation or opportunity, of Salvation again.."
    ...for which 'rendering' / 'interpretation' / 'paraphrasing' I enjoy the support of just about the full scope of Protestant AND Roman Catholic scholarship in exegetics.

    And therefore this part of my 'translation' is accurate as can come... and which, Chowmah, you, are not able to improve on with one word the trust and crux of this Scripture, contrary.

    Now as for the rest of "what (I) quoted", that is "found in the Word" in Hebrews 4:8-10

    ...more LITERAL you won't get;
    ...more precise you won't improve on it;
    ...more TRUE to spirit and truth of the passage, you, or no one else, is able to present :
    BECAUSE :
    "what (I) quoted", WAS, 'quoted' : from : the Text - the Greek words - of the passage :
    LITERALLY, WORD FOR WORD THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD.

    P.S.
    ...not as many as one variant of, exists... I think.
     
    #33 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 1, 2011
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  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    I therefore hope we could stay with the subject of this thread as per (more or less), the op, please.

    Dr Walter, for example, please, What do you say about Isaiah speaking of the Son of Man who kept the Sabbath?

     
    #34 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 1, 2011
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  15. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    You are playing the role of a politician instead of a Biblical exegete! Moses wrote Genesis 2 equally as Exodus 16 and Exodus 20. Both Exodus 16 and Exodus 20 have as their antecedent Genesis 2 - note the word "remember" and the direct reference to creation! Mark 2 has for its antecedent Genesis 2 not Exodus 16 or Exodus 20 as these texts simply "REMEMBER" Genesis 2 and it is was in Genesis 2 that the Sabbath "was made." Mark 2:28 has reference to Christ as Creator in regard to when the Sabbath "was made" not the law giver in Exodus 16 or 20. Exodus 16 does not have Exodus 20 as its precedence for the Sabbath but has Genesis 2 for its precedence. Nothing can be clearer and more easier to see.

    Nothing is stronger than God's own example as a basis for Sabbath observation. If God observed it are you superior to God???????? Mark 2 is based upon God's own example in Genesis 2 and Christ draws from that example God's intent for resting and it was to institute it "for man" not merely for God Himself! Exodus 20 is based upon God's own example in Genesis 2 and the word "remember" proves it! If God rested, God blessed it; and God sanctified it; are you saying He did it only FOR HIMSELF but Jesus says he did it "for man." Nothing makes it more incumbant upon man than God's own example. It is God's own example that is the basis for Exodus 20 and Mark 2:27-28.

    Show me where THE BIBLE says "of the week"???? You cannot do it! What is the import of that problem? Very simple, the Sabbath law is the basis for all other SABBATH APPLICATIONS in Scripture as they are called "SABBATHS" and thus derived from that Law. Any interpretation of that law which restricts it so much that it cannot be applicable to what God applies it to is wrong! The proper interpretation must be sufficiently inclusive to be applied to all that God applies it to in scripture. Your interpretation along with the SDA interpretation forbid such an inclusive interpretation and therefore must be wrong as God's application cannot be wrong!!! The Sabbath principle exceeds any restriction to a particular limitation ALTHOUGH IT INCLUDES IT!

    The proper interpretation is one in seven! In regard to the original institution of the Sabbath the use of the Hebrew term "yom" is used in two senses. It is used for a 24 hour period as well as a period greater than 24 hours (see Genesis 2:4).

    2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. {created…: Heb. created to make}
    4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,


    In the application of the Sabbath law or principle God applies it to greater periods of time than a 24 hour period (month, year) as well as to other days in the month. Hence, you cannot restrict it to something less than what God Himself applies it to without condemning God's own application of it as wrong!

    In the Levitical feasts which typify the NEW COVENANT the Sabbath law is applied to the FIRST and EIGHTH days of the month and significantly the seven month is equally the FIRST month (religious/civil calanders) as well showing the Sabbath law incoporates the first as well as the seventh as equal applications. You position and interpretation is not only too simplex for the Biblical data and evidence but is wrong as it condemns God's own application of that law which exceeds the restrictions you and the SDA place on it.


    Your restrictive explanation condemns God's own application of that law! Your explanation is not only to simplex but too restrictive and incapable of satisfying the Biblical data and evidence. The crux of your interpretation is exactly that of the SDA. Any explanation that falls short of dealing with the entire data is wrong.

    Certainly he was correcting the incorrect understanding and application of the Sabbath law by the Pharisees. But your understanding and application is equally as wrong! It is absurd to say that "the sabbath was made for man" is nothing different than saying God made Monday, tuesday, etc., for man too! That kind of response is rediculous and equally as erroneous as the Phariseeical misapplication and misunderstanding of the Sabbath.

    He does not say the "command" was made for man but "the sabbath was made for man" but you interpret him as meaning the former instead of the latter. His reference is Genesis 2 not Exodus as he is asserting Himself as the "Lord" or Creator of the Sabbath in Gensis 2 and thus the proper interpreter of the Sabbath. Exodus 20 records no Sabbath being "made" but only the command to "remember" when the Sabbath was made by God in Genesis 2. Exodus 20 and Exodus 16 have Gensis 2 as their antecedent just as Mark 2;27-28 have Genesis 2 as its basis. You deny this and are in as much error as the Pharisees.

    I
    Do you understand the term "exegesis"???? Hebrew 4:1-11 is a very methodical and developed argument by Paul to prove the intent behind the creational Sabbath is not fulfilled by spiritual rest entered into by gospel conversion. He is specifically pointing to the days of Moses (Heb. 3) and why they did not enter into that gospel rest (Heb. 2:1-4) because the gospel they heard, the same gospel preached to us, was not mixed with faith IN THEM that heard it! However, it was mixed with faith in Moses, in Joshua, in Caleb, and in all others who were true believers among them. They did enter into that spiritual rest of the gospel (Acts 10:43; 26:22-23) and yet they continued to observe a Sabbath day in the week in spite of entering into that spiritual rest! Why? Because the gospel rest does not completely fulfill the intent behind the creational rest. Neither does entering into Canaan under Joshua fulfill the intent behind the creational Sabbath rest as those who entered Canaan continued to observe a Sabbath day observance in addition to entering into the gospel rest of faith in the coming Christ (Acts 10:43). Neither was the Sabbath rest fulfilled under David who brought peace from all the surrounding enemies and David entered the gospel rest of faith in Christ (Acts 2) but still continued to observe a Sabbath day!

    We also, enter into spiritual rest through the gospel but there still remains a "sabbath day observance for the people of God" today (Heb. 4:9) because the intent of the creational Sabbath has yet to be realized! However, the work of Christ, His redemptive work, that provides us present SPIRITUAL REST in the gospel is the basis that will eventually obtain that intent which is yet future (v. 11) when we enter into a NEW CREATION that is without sin and thus at perfect rest with God. That is what the creational Sabbath commemorates - a sinless creation at rest with God. That is what the work of Jesus Christ (Heb. 4:10) guarantees in the future and therefore the people of God continue to observe a Sabbath day observance until that intent is fulfilled in the New Creation obtained by the redemptive work and person of Jesus Christ - it is future, it is a rest yet to be entered. Joshua was a type of Christ and palestine was a type of that rest. David was a type of Christ and complete domination of all enemies was a type of that rest. Christ has finished the work but that rest has yet to be entered and cannot be entered until the last enemy is conquerored which is death and death still has its grips upon the soul and body of believers. Only the human spirit has entered into that rest - only the regenerated inward man is free from sin at rest with God and thus IN UNION with God. Thus the creation Sabbath is yet unfulfilled. However, we have a BETTER SABBATH because it commemorates a GREATER work than creation - the work of redemption (Heb. 4:10) which ushers in a NEW CREATION that will permenantly remain without sin. This better Sabbath day observance is the "Lord's day."

    The "Lord's day" - the very words demand that one day of the week is claimed by the Lord above others!!!! To deny this is to enter into the absurd and into the fiction of eisgesis.
     
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    I beg to differ "the intent of the creational Sabbath has yet to be realized".

    And I also object to the understanding that the Sabbath’s intent or purpose and historical development are being based on human endeavour and eventuality.

    The Sabbath squarely rests on God’s ESCHATOLOGICAL availing in and through Jesus Christ, from creation until his Resurrection; as well as on the SOTERIOLOGICAL “intent of the creational Sabbath (that) has yet to be realized” in the resurrection of the saints in the last day and the new earth thereafter.

    So, for sure, “… the work of Christ, His redemptive work … provides us present SPIRITUAL REST in the gospel (and) is the basis that will eventually obtain that intent which is yet future (v. 11) when we enter into a NEW CREATION that is without sin and thus at perfect rest with God. That is what the creational Sabbath commemorates - a sinless creation at rest with God…" and the Sabbath through the resurrection of Christ from the dead is looking forward to, Colossians 2:17,19.


     
    #36 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 1, 2011
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  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Again, not so much (if at all) from the human point of view or devotion of "one day of the week" to God,

    but,
    first, Of the LORD GOD "making", "that one day of the week" "_MY_ Holy Day" through "ACT"="LAW"="WORK" of _HIS_;
    and,
    second, Of the Lord God "making", "THAT, ONE, day of the week" - "THE SEVENTH DAY" "GOD thus concerning spake", "My _HOLY-DAY_" through "ACT"="LAW"="WORK" of _HIS_...

    ABOVE ALL BY CHRIST'S RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD ON IT.

    "THEREFORE the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath Day" .... the 'sabbath day' spoken of and referred to and "remembered" IN THESE VERY WORDS OF JESUS, "The SEVENTH Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD"!

    But ... "he shall think to change Times and Law of God ..." through "the fiction of eisgesis."
     
    #37 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 1, 2011
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  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    "The Thousand Years the First Resurrection" ; these are the words, the only words in the entire Bible, that define "the Millennial Kingdom" --- "the Millennial Kingdom" we, "in this age of grace, the Church Age", to quote YOU : "live".

    You gave the very good, very true and very beautiful explanation of it, DHK, which is in full agreement with the Scriptures and in direct contradiction and conflict with YOURSELF!

    Conclusion :
    During this age there IS a commandment to keep the Sabbath, many times repeated in many ways in the New Testament.

    Here is one : “Because Jesus had given them rest there THEREFORE REMAINS OBLIGATORY FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD A KEEPING OF THE SABBATH DAY.”


     
  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    DHK insists there MUST be in so many words a commandment that the Sabbath must be kept before a Christian is obliged to keep it.

    Yes, you are right. There must.

    Only issue is, what such a commandment must look like.

    I - a believer the Sabbath should be kept - say, Because we are Christians, the commandment should NOT be given in legal, commanding terms or fashion, but by grace through faith no less than our righteousness should be by grace through faith.

    DHK, a believer the Sabbath should NOT be kept - say, because we are Christians, the commandment MUST be given in legal, commanding terms and manner, and denies it is given in the grace through faith principle we find in the New Testament.

    To me that is an inexplicable anomaly.


     
    #39 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2011
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Not in the light of Exodus 31. God is immutable. He doesn't change.
    He gave the Sabbath as a sign of his covenant between him and the nation of Israel and their generations forever. Unless there is a direct command, a statement somewhere that revokes that command, then the command is given only to the nation of Israel and not to the NT Christian. All of Scripture is in harmony with each other. There are no contradictions. Your position, along with Dr. Walters, makes the Bible contradict itself. The Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel, and only the nation of Israel. That has never been revoked.
     
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