The Sabbath was "Made for Mankind" Mark 2:27??

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Feb 2, 2006.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    The traditions of man will often collide with the Word of God such that we can't actually "allow the Word" to be true and still cling to man made tradition.

    Mark 2:27 is a good example of a text where tradition and scripture often collide.

    Mark 2:27 “The Sabbath was Made for MANKIND”.

    To what prior point in history is Christ pointing to – when He claims that the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind? At what point in time does your “tradition” allow Christ’s words to have been true?

    What are the possible "alternatives" to simply accepting the Mark 2:27 , Gen 2:3 and Isaiah 66 statements on the scope of Sabbath applying to “All Mankind”?


    Would you allow Christ’s Words to be true in that historic point in time when God "Made” both the Sabbath and mankind? Was this when “ the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind"? in Gen 2:3 God not only "rested on the 7-day of the week” He also blessed it and made it holy “sanctified it”. According to Exodus 20:8-11 this historic fact established the day as holy and binding. But was it binding for “mankind” as Christ said? OR was it “Made for mankind” at some later point? Since both Gen 2:3 and Exodus 20:8-11 agree to this 7 day creation week “event” As the TIME when it was MADE (in fact when BOTH mankind AND the Sabbath were MADE) this is the only time prior to Christ that the reader of Mark 2 would have know to be the time of the “making” of the 7th day of creation week and of the “making” of mankind.

    When “else” would you apply Mark 2:27 prior to the days of Chist?


    No Alternative

    #1. Would it be to argue that when God "Made the Sabbath for mankind" in Gen 2:3 He "kept it a secret FROM mankind though made FOR mankind”??? Did mankind not know about a 7 day week? Did Creation week “not exist”?? Would Christ the Creator have kept His own 7-day week and the 7th-day weekly Holy day a secret from all mankind."? Was this supposed time of keeping the memorial of creation a secret from mankind – the time when “Sabbath was made for mankind” but not the time when God expected “All mankind to come before Him to worship”?

    #2. Is it in the OT days after the fall of Adam - when some claim that "God only gave the Sabbath to the Jews and NOT all mankind"?

    #3. Is it post Cross - when some say that it actually displeases God if we obey Him and honor His 7th-day memorial of the creation of mankind – since in fact – He is not even asking us to honor His own memorial of Creation that He blessed and Sanctified in Gen 2:3 making it “For mankind”.

    #3. Or is it sometime after the 2nd coming - when Isaiah 66 described the New Earth and "All mankind" coming before God to worship? (Isaiah 66) Is it some post-2nd-coming “New Earth” as God describes in Rev 21? In which case Christ must have said "One day in the future The Sabbath WILL BE MADE for MAnkind" (if only we could rewrite scripture - eh?)

    #4. Or will the claim be that the People of God were kept so far in the dark in all of these areas - that they had no hope of having any understanding of the "New Heavens and New Earth" or when it would be and so any application of anything in that mythical - unknown time can not be counted on - even when the message comes from God Himself? Since (after all) the Jews were confused.

    Basically there is no compelling alternative to suggest for Isaiah 66 let alone make a solid case for. So then we accept the Isaiah 66 reference to the New Earth as fully consistent with the Rev 21 reference and we also accept the “All mankind” – scope – as real, authoritative, divinely inspired and true – even though it is spoken in Isaiah to a rebellious Israel.

    What are your alternatives?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. BobRyan

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    This next reference is interesting in that it admits to the “making of both” the Sabbath and Mankind at Creation week and shows the true binding nature of the Sabbath – AND it admits to its own need to switch the Sabbath from what Christ the Creator gave in Gen 2:3 – to man’s traditions regarding “weekday-one”


    28 ""So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.''
     
  3. BobRyan

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    I realize you could always "count the words" in Mark 2:27 instead of responding to the substance in the text and certainly that has already been tried on this board. My question is for those that will set their tradition aside long enoug to deal with the text itself as the Words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ recorded in the Gospel accounts of the NT.

    Surely His word is significant enough to deserve some attention paid to the actual text of Mark 2:27!

    So - at what point in time will your traditions allow Mark 2:27 to have been true?? "Made for Mankind"??
     
  4. wopik

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    people are too brainwashed in keeping the lie of a sunday resurrection.


    they can't see that the Sabbath was MADE by their Creator Jesus (Jn 1:1-14) who became flesh and 'tabernacled amoung us'.

    He is Lord of the Sabbath Day ---- that is the true Lord's Day.

    the mainstream christian world keeps the counterfeit 'Lord's day'.


    that's why they have to convince themselves that the law is done away, because what else can they do with the 4th Commandment ?


    Paul told jews and gentiles to keep the Commandments of God (1cor 7:19), all TEN --- to keep FROM sinnng (rom 7:7).


    Sin is still breaking the Ten Comandment (rom 7:7) --- all Ten.
     
  5. standingfirminChrist

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    Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    Matthew 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?

    Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

    Whenever you point an accusing finger at someone else for breaking a commandment, or for sinning, you have three of your own pointing back at you.

    The Pharisees were told by Jesus that they themselves were not keeping the Sabbath/

    Those who accuse others of not keeping the Sabbath, let me ask you this... Do you go anywhere on the Sabbath? According to Jewish law, one could not travel more than a mile on the Sabbath. Is your church less than a mile from your home? Do you cook for your family? Do you drive on the Sabbath? If you answered no to the first question or yes to any of the others, you have broken the Sabbath.

    Check out Leviticus 23. There are many torts and laws concerning the Sabbath. I am sure we all are guilty of breaking more than one of the Sabbatical laws.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    Still you are avoiding the simple question of the opening post regarding Mark 2:27.

    At what point in history does your tradition "Allow" for Christ's words to be true as He spoke them in Mark 2:27 showing that the "Sabbath was MADE for mankind"?

    OR is the answer that your tradition does not allow you to read His Words in that text or think about them or respond to them?

    Just curious.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. Claudia_T

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    Jesus Himself kept the Sabbath and He is our example.


    The Sabbath was embodied in the law given from Sinai; but it was not then first made known as a day of rest. The people of Israel had a knowledge of it before they came to Sinai. On the way thither the Sabbath was kept. When some profaned it, the Lord reproved them, saying, "How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?" Ex. 16:28.


    The Sabbath was not for Israel merely, but for the world. It had been made known to man in Eden, and, like the other precepts of the Decalogue, it is of imperishable obligation. Of that law of which the fourth commandment forms a part, Christ declares, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law." So long as the heavens and the earth endure, the Sabbath will continue as a sign of the Creator's power. And when Eden shall bloom on earth again, God's holy rest day will be honored by all beneath the sun. "From one Sabbath to another" the inhabitants of the glorified new earth shall go up "to worship before Me, saith the Lord." Matt. 5:18; Isa. 66:23.


    The Jewish leaders accomplished the will of Satan by surrounding God's rest day with burdensome requirements. In the days of Christ the Sabbath had become so perverted that its observance reflected the character of selfish and arbitrary men rather than the character of the loving heavenly Father. The rabbis virtually represented God as giving laws which it was impossible for men to obey. They led the people to look upon God as a tyrant, and to think that the observance of the Sabbath, as He required it, made men hard-hearted and cruel. It was the work of Christ to clear away these misconceptions.


    Although the rabbis followed Him with merciless hostility, He did not even appear to conform to their requirements, but went straight forward, keeping the Sabbath according to the law of God.


    Upon one Sabbath day, as the Saviour and His disciples returned from the place of worship, they passed through a field of ripening grain. Jesus had continued His work to a late hour, and while passing through the fields, the disciples began to gather the heads of grain, and to eat the kernels after rubbing them in their hands. On any other day this act would have excited no comment, for one passing through a field of grain, an orchard, or a vineyard, was at liberty to gather what he desired to eat. See Deut. 23:24, 25. But to do this on the Sabbath was held to be an act of desecration. Not only was the gathering of the grain a kind of reaping, but the rubbing of it in the hands was a kind of threshing. Thus, in the opinion of the rabbis, there was a double offense.


    The spies at once complained to Jesus, saying, "Behold, Thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the Sabbath day."


    When accused of Sabbathbreaking at Bethesda, Jesus defended Himself by affirming His Sonship to God, and declaring that He worked in harmony with the Father. Now that the disciples are attacked, He cites His accusers to examples from the Old Testament, acts performed on the Sabbath by those who were in the service of God.


    The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.


    If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.


    Christ would teach His disciples and His enemies that the service of God is first of all. The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law. Jesus then crowned His argument by declaring Himself the "Lord of the Sabbath,"--One above all question and above all law. This infinite Judge acquits the disciples of blame, appealing to the very statutes they are accused of violating.


    Jesus did not let the matter pass with administering a rebuke to His enemies. He declared that in their blindness they had mistaken the object of the Sabbath. He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." Matt. 12:7. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshiper of God.


    Again Christ reiterated the truth that the sacrifices were in themselves of no value. They were a means, and not an end. Their object was to direct men to the Saviour, and thus to bring them into harmony with God. It is the service of love that God values. When this is lacking, the mere round of ceremony is an offense to Him. So with the Sabbath. It was designed to bring men into communion with God; but when the mind was absorbed with wearisome rites, the object of the Sabbath was thwarted. Its mere outward observance was a mockery.


    Upon another Sabbath, as Jesus entered a synagogue. He saw there a man who had a withered hand. The Pharisees watched Him, eager to see what He would do. The Saviour well knew that in healing on the Sabbath He would be regarded as a transgressor, but He did not hesitate to break down the wall of traditional requirements that barricaded the Sabbath. Jesus bade the afflicted man stand forth, and then asked, "It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill?" It was a maxim among the Jews that a failure to do good, when one had opportunity, was to do evil; to neglect to save life was to kill. Thus Jesus met the rabbis on their own ground. "But they held their peace. And when He had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, He saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other." Mark 3:4, 5.


    When questioned, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath days?" Jesus answered, "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the Sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days." Matt. 12:10-12.


    The spies dared not answer Christ in the presence of the multitude, for fear of involving themselves in difficulty. They knew that He had spoken the truth. Rather than violate their traditions, they would leave a man to suffer, while they would relieve a brute because of the loss to the owner if it were neglected. Thus greater care was shown for a dumb animal than for man, who is made in the image of God. This illustrates the working of all false religions. They originate in man's desire to exalt himself above God, but they result in degrading man below the brute. Every religion that wars against the sovereignty of God defrauds man of the glory which was his at the creation, and which is to be restored to him in Christ. Every false religion teaches its adherents to be careless of human needs, sufferings, and rights. The gospel places a high value upon humanity as the purchase of the blood of Christ, and it teaches a tender regard for the wants and woes of man. The Lord says, "I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12.


    When Jesus turned upon the Pharisees with the question whether it was lawful on the Sabbath day to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill, He confronted them with their own wicked purposes. They were hunting His life with bitter hatred, while He was saving life and bringing happiness to multitudes. Was it better to slay upon the Sabbath, as they were planning to do, than to heal the afflicted, as He had done? Was it more righteous to have murder in the heart upon God's holy day than love to all men, which finds expression in deeds of mercy?


    In the healing of the withered hand, Jesus condemned the custom of the Jews, and left the fourth commandment standing as God had given it. "It is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days," He declared. By sweeping away the senseless restrictions of the Jews, Christ honored the Sabbath, while those who complained of Him were dishonoring God's holy day.


    Those who hold that Christ abolished the law teach that He broke the Sabbath and justified His disciples in doing the same. Thus they are really taking the same ground as did the caviling Jews. In this they contradict the testimony of Christ Himself, who declared, "I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love." John 15:10. Neither the Saviour nor His followers broke the law of the Sabbath. Christ was a living representative of the law. No violation of its holy precepts was found in His life. Looking upon a nation of witnesses who were seeking occasion to condemn Him, He could say unchallenged, "Which of you convicteth Me of sin?" John 8:46, R. V.


    The Saviour had not come to set aside what patriarchs and prophets had spoken; for He Himself had spoken through these representative men. All the truths of God's word came from Him. But these priceless gems had been placed in false settings. Their precious light had been made to minister to error. God desired them to be removed from their settings of error and replaced in the framework of truth. This work only a divine hand could accomplish. By its connection with error, the truth had been serving the cause of the enemy of God and man. Christ had come to place it where it would glorify God, and work the salvation of humanity.


    "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath," Jesus said. The institutions that God has established are for the benefit of mankind. "All things are for your sakes." "Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; and ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's." 2 Cor. 4:15; 1 Cor. 3:22, 23. The law of Ten Commandments, of which the Sabbath forms a part, God gave to His people as a blessing. "The Lord commanded us," said Moses, "to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive." Deut. 6:24. And through the psalmist the message was given to Israel, "Serve the Lord with gladness: come before His presence with singing. Know ye that the Lord He is God: it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise." Ps. 100:2-4. And of all who keep "the Sabbath from polluting it," the Lord declares, "Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer." Isa. 56:6, 7.


    "Wherefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." These words are full of instruction and comfort. Because the Sabbath was made for man, it is the Lord's day. It belongs to Christ. For "all things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made." John 1:3. Since He made all things, He made the Sabbath. By Him it was set apart as a memorial of the work of creation. It points to Him as both the Creator and the Sanctifier. It declares that He who created all things in heaven and in earth, and by whom all things hold together, is the head of the church, and that by His power we are reconciled to God. For, speaking of Israel, He said, "I gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them,"--make them holy. Ezek. 20:12. Then the Sabbath is a sign of Christ's power to make us holy. And it is given to all whom Christ makes holy. As a sign of His sanctifying power, the Sabbath is given to all who through Christ become a part of the Israel of God.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    So I take that as your vote that "it was MADE for MANKIND" in the Gen 1-2:3 creation week.

    Any other options out there? So far we have this one as the only one being mentioned on the thread.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. wopik

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  10. standingfirminChrist

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    I am not avoiding the opening post. I am making a statement that if one is going to be so Pharisitical as to accuse one of breaking the Sabbath by choosing to go to church on Sunday, one better be following the laws of the Sabbath to a T.

    Otherwise, one is like a pot calling the kettle black.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    I am certainly not pushing for a 'hunting party' looking for Sabbath violations.

    My OP is just to know where one's traditions will allow them to let Christ's Mark 2:27 Words to be true regarding the "Sabbath MADE for Mankind" - what point in history?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. UUall

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    Hi standingfirm
    Many of those points you made about breaking Gods sabbath day were simply laws added by men. Some are parables. Gods sabbath day is a real day created by God for mankind. A day that sanctifies. A day that sets apart. A day that magnifies to a 1000 yrs.
     
  13. wopik

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    Jesus said there were no T's --- that was His whole point.


    You are sounding like the Pharisees Jesus reprimanded. They were into T's --- "you can't do this, you can't do that." To keep from breaking the Sabbath day, the Jews added tons of extra regulations that made the Sabbath a grievous burden.


    Jesus said, --- I can heal and I can eat corn from a farmers field........all on the Sabbath Day.


    http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml
     
  14. BobRyan

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    There are three interesting facts about Christ's statement in Mark 2:27 that I would like to point out.

    #1. The Sabbath was made FOR mankind.

    It is a blessing TO mankind - not a curse. When it was MADE and when mankind was MADE - there were no Jews, no traditions of man, nothing to cloud "the gift" of God to mankind.

    #2. The Sabbath was made for MANKIND

    It is a blessing to ALL mankind - not just an arbitrarily select few.

    #3. It is one of two institutions mankind took outside the Garden of Eden. The other being marriage and BOTH of them referenced in Gen 2!

    Interestingly - BOTH of these institutions have been under attack since the dawn of time!

    (Even more interestingly - nobody who rejects Christ the Creator's Holy Sabbath has been willing to come to this thread and state WHEN they will allow Christ's words in Mark 2:27 to have been true about the Sabbath being "MADE" for "MANKIND".

    Not one. (Though StandingfirminChrist deserves much credit in that he would even read these words of Christ and be willing to engage in discussion regarding them in any way! Truly awesome!)

    Lessong for the reader: The words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ are pretty easy to ignore if you are married to man made tradition on a certain point.)

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. standingfirminChrist

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    Bob,

    You argue that we are in the wrong by worshipping on Sunday and that we are breaking the Sabbath by not worshipping on Saturday.

    Exodus 20:8 - 11 tells us that we are not to do any work on the Sabbath.

    By typing in the room at 6:51 this morning, you essentially were working, thereby breaking the Sabbath you are accusing others of breaking.

    As I said in an earlier post...

    The pot calling the kettle black.
     
  16. BobRyan

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    AGain you are ignoring the OP post. Your statement is not a quote of me on this thread at all.

    In the OP I ask one simple question of all those who do not choose to Honor Christ the Creator's own Holy Day - His own memorial of creation (for whatever reasons they may have) and that question is -- "WHEN" in history do you allow Christ's words in Mark 2:27 to have been true?

    In post after post you do not answer the question in the OP.

    Neither do any who take your POV offer to actualy read and affirm the words of Christ in Mark 2:27!

    Don't you find that "instructive"? I do.

    Come on! This has to be the easiest thing in the world to refute my claim here. Just read the words of Christ in Mark 27 -- affirm them and show WHERE in your own traditions you allow them to be true - at what point in history was it true that the Sabbath was "MADE" for "mankind"??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. BobRyan

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    The fact that you entertain yourself with stories about talking, walking, breathing or typing being a form of "Sabbath breaking" does not change the question in the OP. I would never challenge your right to make stuff up like that - but don't view your own imagination as if that is some form of "exegesis". Clearly it is not.

    Talking, typing, talking on the phone, riding in the car -- NONE of these are Sabbath breaking "works" in the case of the Sabbath of Christ the Creator "MADE FOR mankind".

    Yet IF carried to the point of WORK (Long haul truck driver or cab driver or phone operator) they then BECOME work and they become a violation.

    Christ makes the same point with the incidental gathering of grain in the field vs actual harvesting.

    Now as for my point about your not choosing to Keep Christ the Creator's Sabbath -- this is NOT me finding fault with your efforts/choice to honor Christ the Creator's own Holy Day selected by HIM as a memorial of Creation and given BY HIM to MANKIND as a blessing.

    Rather this is YOU claiming that YOU don't intend to show it honor. I am simply acknowledging the choice YOU claim to be making!

    This could not be more obvious.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. standingfirminChrist

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    In the New Testament, Sabbath keeping is not given as a command believers living under the New Covenant must keep. The New Testament gives plenty of moral laws we are bound to obey, but Sabbath-keeping is not one of them.

    Sabbath-breaking is never listed as sin in the New Testament, but rather law-breaking. Jesus even revealed this to the Pharisees that is was man's laws and not God's that were being broke.

    In Romans 1:29-32 there are 22 sins mentioned. However, Sabbath-breaking is not in this list of sins. even more interesting is the fact that the immediate context describes the worship the gentiles should have offered to God (Rom.1:18-23).

    If the Sabbath was still to be observed by all men, Paul would have written of it in this passage.

    In Galatians 5:19-21 there are 17 sins, however Sabbath-breaking is not in this list. Why this notable absence? The reason is because Sabbath-keeping is not carried over from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. It was a shadow pointing men to the true substance, which is Christ - a ceremonial law pointing men to their true rest, the Lord Jesus. John 5:39
     
  19. BobRyan

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    Ok - you clearly do not believe that Sabbath keeping continues after the cross (even though Isaiah 66 points to ALL mankind keeping Sabbath in the New Heavens and New Earth).

    For the sake of this thread I am willing to set that discussion aside for another thread.

    Back to the question on the OP. What is your answer?
     
  20. standingfirminChrist

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    The OP is worded wrong.

    What Jesus said was, Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

    When reading this verse, one must be careful not to quote it incorrectly, nor to take it out of context.

    When you look at all the other verse dealing with the Sabbath, you see that the Sabbath was not for the New Testament believers.

    It was Old Covenant; for the Israelites only.
     

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