The Sabbath was not Changed

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013.

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  1. BobRyan

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    And then there is the Baptist Confession of Faith claiming that the Sabbath WAS changed.


    So also does the Baptist Confession of Faith agree with this idea that the Bible Sabbath as given by God is not Sunday.

    Quote:
    22.7 As it is the law of nature that a portion of time by God's appointment should be set apart for the worship of God, so in his Word he has given a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all people in all ages. In particular he has appointed one day in seven as a Sabbath to be kept holy to him.1 From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, but from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week which is called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.2
    (1) Gen 2:3; Exo 20:8-11; Mar 2:27-28; Rev 1:10
    (2) Joh 20:1; Act 2:1; 20:7; 1Co 16:1; Rev 1:10; Col 2:16-17
    They admit that a CHANGE was made in what the BIBLE states to be the Sabbath day - Saturday. Almost every Baptist on this board today - knows that the Bible Sabbath is Saturday.

    So which is it?

    I think the Sabbath was not changed - it is still Saturday.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #1 BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013
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  2. Salty

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    The Sabbath is still on Saturday

    We celebrate the Lords resurrection every Week on Sunday - we break bread on the first day of the week - I Cor 16:2
     
  3. BobRyan

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    So then you are also in opposition to your own Baptist Confession of Faith - even as C.H. Spurgeon edited it - on that one point about the Sabbath being changed - where they insist it has been changed - but I insist that it has not.

    You appear to agree with me - and not the Baptist Confession of Faith in that one point. That the Sabbath of the 4th commandment still points to Saturday - the SEVENTH day of the week.

    I appreciate agreement wherever it exists.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Having said that - I DO Agree with the Baptist Confession of Faith in areas like Section 19 where it admits that the TEN Commandments are the moral law of God - written on the heart under the New Covenant - and all TEN still binding on the saints today - even as it was given to ALL mankind in the OT.

    My guess is that you would differ with your own Baptist Confession of Faith - on that point as well.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. Salty

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    You are incorrect!
    VIII. The Lord's Day
    The first day of the week is the Lord's Day. It is a Christian institution for regular observance. It commemorates the resurrection of Christ from the dead and should include exercises of worship and spiritual devotion, both public and private. Activities on the Lord's Day should be commensurate with the Christian's conscience under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
    Exodus 20:8-11; Matthew 12:1-12; 28:1ff.; Mark 2:27-28; 16:1-7; Luke 24:1-3,33-36; John 4:21-24; 20:1,19-28; Acts 20:7; Romans 14:5-10; I Corinthians 16:1-2; Colossians 2:16; 3:16; Revelation 1:10.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    I notice you do not address these points in section 19 of your own Baptist Confession of Faith in your response
    You appear to want to post as if you might possibly agree with the Baptist Confession of Faith in this area.

    How so?

    ================

    Baptist Confession of Faith - as edited by C.H. Spurgeon in the 19th Century.

    19. The Law of God
    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

    3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

    4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

    5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

    ====================================

    On these points I agree with your own Baptist Confession of Faith - is this where you object to your own Baptist Confession of Faith??

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #6 BobRyan, Jun 29, 2013
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  7. BobRyan

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    Your own Baptist Confession of Faith states that a change takes place in the Ten Commandments - in the 4th commandment - -in the Sabbath Commandment.

    Apparently this took place -- as dictated by the traditions of man.
     
  8. Salty

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    If you are responding to my question ( post # 5 ), then I'm not sure, as the statement only has 18 articles.

    Also, keep in mind - there is NO "Baptist Confession of Faith" to cover all Baptists (including 7th Day Baptists) but each LOCAL church decides for themselves as to the doctrine they believe.

    ALSO- why do respond in such large font - makes it to hard to read.
     
  9. JohnDeereFan

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    You're welcome to worship on whatever day you like, but if you still see a day of the week as the Sabbath, then you've missed the point of the Sabbath.

    The Sabbath was only meant to be an illustration of the rest we have in Christ. Why would you prefer the shadow over the real thing?
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    I for one, am in complete agreement with the London Confession of Faith in regard to its total statement concerning the Sabbath and its view of the Law as well as its consistent position of justification by faith without works.

    The change of Sabbath days was predicted in the ceremonial laws that characterized the New Covenant under Christ - Lev. 23

    The change of Sabbath days was predicted by David in His Messanic prophecy about the day of the resurrection - Psa. 118:20-25/Acts 4:10-11

    The change of Sabbath days is established under the New Covenant that abolishes the whole Sabbatory Levitical Laws under the Old Covenant including their Seventh day of the week Sabbath - Col. 2:16

    The New Covenant ushers in a better and new Sabbath - Heb. 4:1-11 that is not fulfilled until God ushers in a new sinless creation and we enter into our rest completely both spirit, soul and body.

    Our Sabbath day is a day of rejoicing and worship free from all Mosaic restrictions and bondage and is called "the Lord's Day" - Rev. 1:10

    It is the historic Christian day of worship from the first century unto the fourth century BEFORE Constantine ever submitted his law.

    It is no more a "sun" worship observance than Saturday is a "Saturn" worship observance.

    The resurrection day is the first sabbath in a new series of sabbaths under the New Covenant - Mk. 16:9 - "proto sabbatou"

    There is not one recorded "church" worship on the seventh day of the week in the New Testament - all on the first day of the week.

    The only evidence for any kind of Satuday meetings is with Paul going to the Jews to witness to them on their Sabbath.
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    Can you provide an actual link to this?
     
  12. The Biblicist

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    #12 The Biblicist, Jun 30, 2013
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  13. The Biblicist

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    1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

    Chapter 11: Of Justification

    1. Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.
    ( Romans 3:24; Romans 8:30; Romans 4:5-8; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:30, 31; Romans 5:17-19; Philippians 3:8, 9; Ephesians 2:8-10; John 1:12; Romans 5:17 )


    2. Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.
    ( Romans 3:28; Galatians 5:6; James 2:17, 22, 26 )


    3. Christ, by his obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified; and did, by the sacrifice of himself in the blood of his cross, undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them, make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to God's justice in their behalf; yet, inasmuch as he was given by the Father for them, and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead, and both freely, not for anything in them, their justification is only of free grace, that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.
    ( Hebrews 10:14; 1 Peter 1:18, 19; Isaiah 53:5, 6; Romans 8:32; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 3:26; Ephesians 1:6,7; Ephesians 2:7 )


    4. God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their justification; nevertheless, they are not justified personally, until the Holy Spirit doth in time due actually apply Christ unto them.
    ( Galatians 3:8; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Timothy 2:6; Romans 4:25; Colossians 1:21,22; Titus 3:4-7 )


    5. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified, and although they can never fall from the state of justification, yet they may, by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure; and in that condition they have not usually the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.
    ( Matthew 6:12; 1 John 1:7, 9; John 10:28; Psalms 89:31-33; Psalms 32:5; Psalms 51; Matthew 26:75 )


    6. The justification of believers under the Old Testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the New Testament.
    ( Galatians 3:9; Romans 4:22-24 )


    Here is the full context of what these Baptists beleived about Justification but Bob won't quote this to support his view of justification by keeping the law. No, he will cherry pick statements made about their view of the law, jerk it out of their overal context and make you think they beleived what he does - pure deception!
     
  14. BobRyan

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    indeed --- where we find this in Section 22 regarding the "Change" of the Law of God

    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    And then there is the Baptist Confession of Faith claiming that the Sabbath WAS changed.


    So also does the Baptist Confession of Faith agree with this idea that the Bible Sabbath as given by God is not Sunday.

    Quote:
    22.7 As it is the law of nature that a portion of time by God's appointment should be set apart for the worship of God, so in his Word he has given a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all people in all ages. In particular he has appointed one day in seven as a Sabbath to be kept holy to him.1 From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, but from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week which is called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.2
    (1) Gen 2:3; Exo 20:8-11; Mar 2:27-28; Rev 1:10
    (2) Joh 20:1; Act 2:1; 20:7; 1Co 16:1; Rev 1:10; Col 2:16-17
    They admit that a CHANGE was made in what the BIBLE states to be the Sabbath day - Saturday. Almost every Baptist on this board today - knows that the Bible Sabbath is Saturday.

    So which is it?

    I think the Sabbath was not changed - it is still Saturday.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Which brings us to section 19 "The LAW of God"

    19. The Law of God
    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

    3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

    4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

    5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
     
  16. BobRyan

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    When I cut past from the Bible or the Baptist Confession of Faith - this website changes the font to an extremely small version - so I have to reset it.
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    Nice try, but that is not what they said. They did not say "the law" was changed as they still believe in the Sabbath and fourth commandment. The "day" was changed not the Law. The Law never says "day of the week" that is your imagination.
     
  18. The Biblicist

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    Again, you are cherry picking and ignoring the whole contextal explanation as they give it. That is why you don't continue finishing their article. And when you do quote number 6 you intentionaly pervert their interpretation as anyone can see what they meant by looking at their article on Justification.

    Bottom line, you are intentionally perverting, distorting and misinterpreting what they meant and said and it is easy to see when anyone finishes reading #6 of this article where their view of Justification and the Law is described and when their article on Justification is read. It is clear what they intended and it clear you are intentionally perverting their words.


    They explicity deny that keeping of the Law enables the believer to be justified or that obedience plays any part of justification before God.
     
  19. BobRyan

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    Which brings us to section 19 "The LAW of God"

    19. The Law of God
    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

    3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

    4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

    5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.



    Wrong.

    I am quoting from section 19 exactly as they stated it.

    Obviously.

    The document is very large and I do not intend to quote then entire document when identifying key points that it makes.

    Contrary to your wild hopes and imagination - they do not contradict the points they make in Section 19 in later sections.



    Wrong.

    As can be plainly seen - the mere quote of Section 19 above gives rise to your acrimony.

    Notice that in my 'mere quote" of the text that drives you up a wall - I never claim that it says that "Keeping the law is how the lost become saved or become just".

    You simply invent straw-man arguments in your frustration with the text itself.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. BobRyan

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    And then there is the Baptist Confession of Faith claiming that the Sabbath WAS changed.


    So also does the Baptist Confession of Faith agree with this idea that the Bible Sabbath as given by God is not Sunday.

    Quote:
    22.7 As it is the law of nature that a portion of time by God's appointment should be set apart for the worship of God, so in his Word he has given a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all people in all ages. In particular he has appointed one day in seven as a Sabbath to be kept holy to him.1 From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, but from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week which is called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.2
    (1) Gen 2:3; Exo 20:8-11; Mar 2:27-28; Rev 1:10
    (2) Joh 20:1; Act 2:1; 20:7; 1Co 16:1; Rev 1:10; Col 2:16-17
    They admit that a CHANGE was made in what the BIBLE states to be the Sabbath day - Saturday. Almost every Baptist on this board today - knows that the Bible Sabbath is Saturday.

    So which is it?

    I think the Sabbath was not changed - it is still Saturday.


    Wrong.

    I just quoted what they said in the text above.

    What a wonderful "Fiction" which could only be true IF the Law did not mention THE DAY!

    Here is the LAW.

    Let all readers "note the obvious" that "THE DAy" is in fact "mentioned" in "The LAW" that is being "changed".

    8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


    Bible study - Bible doctrine - just does not get any easier, any more obvious than this!.



    And I think we both know it.



    in Christ,


    Bob
     
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