The same Children....Jn6.....Hebrews 2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    In a recent thread that was closed we saw conclusively that God has a Covenant children that are Given by the Father to the Son.

    Far from being a "man made doctrine"...it is a divinely revealed truth.

    The Lord Jesus Christ revealed the Father during the time of His incarnation.

    As a part of that additional revelation He revealed the Covenant of redemption in these words in John 6;

    All that the Father gives to me shall come to me, and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

    This is clear and certain language. A multitude of people are given to the Son who will seek and save them. This is so clear only a mad man would seek to oppose it:laugh:

    How much comfort do you take in such solid promises knowing the same truth has been revealed in Hebrews 2;9-17 ?
     
  2. Rippon

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    John 17:2:

    "For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him."
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    Clearly it is not all men who ever lived...but only those GIVEN.....

    SEE THE PROMISE HERE;

    24 Father,

    1] I will that they also,

    2] whom thou hast given me,

    3] be with me

    4] where I am;

    that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

    25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.


    only a person with a wrong worldview would not rejoice in this:wavey::thumbs:
     
  4. Iconoclast

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    CHS......on why not all men are coming......
    http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0182.htm


    Those claimed in this way would be the Children.

    Speaking of those who come;




     
    #4 Iconoclast, Jun 29, 2015
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  5. Iconoclast

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    on Heb2...CHS;
     
  6. DHK

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    Park Street and Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit (Spurgeon)
    1012 The Unbeliever's Unhappy Condition
    THE UNBELIEVER'S UNHAPPY CONDITION.

    NO. 1012

    A SERMON DELIVERED ON LORD'S-DAY MORNING, SEPTEMBER 24TH, 1871,

    BY C. H. SPURGEON,

    Still the same Spurgeon. The unsaved can hear, understand and believe the gospel, as Spurgeon constantly urges them to do.
     
  7. Iconoclast

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    :thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:......yes.....and everyone of those given will be enabled to do just that:thumbsup: good link...DHK

    From that same sermon;


    Notice he loved souls enough to even warn those in the church who hold correct doctrine to make sure Christ was the true object of faith...even if they professed to hold the 5 pts.
     
    #7 Iconoclast, Jun 29, 2015
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  8. Iconoclast

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    from the same sermon;

     
  9. DHK

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    You are quoting indiscriminately and fail to see the emphasis of his sermon.

    Remember the text of the sermon:
    "He that believed, not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." — Joh 3:36.

    Now you quote from the sermon:
    You shall not see life, but you shall feel wrath to the uttermost. It is horror enough that wrath should be on you now, it is horror upon horrors, and hell upon hell, that it shall be upon you for ever.

    But his emphasis is on believing or not believing, not on election or predestination.
    All of the responsibility is put on the unconverted, the unbeliever to read the gospel, understand it, and on that basis choose Christ.
    That is the total opposite of what you have been saying in the last thread. Spurgeon believes there is no reason for the unconverted that they cannot understand the gospel so that they cannot be saved. It is their responsibility to understand it and then to believe it, or they will face the horrors of hell. Not once did he mention they were predestined to go there.

    In fact, Spurgeon is appalled at those who pretend they have an excuse for not believing. Read carefully:
    Clearly there is no reason for the unconverted not understanding the gospel and not believing the gospel according to Spurgeon.
     
  10. Iconoclast

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    The word of God is a two edged sword. Spurgeon saw both sides of that sword. We also need to see both sides of it as he and countless others do.
    Sometimes he spoke of one aspect.....sometime another.
    The other sermon I posted a bit from was named....Human Inability.
    This thread is about these two sections of Scripture and how they mesh together.
    Spurgeon believed Adam and all men with him DIED at the fall.They were not only wounded as you suggest.
    Spurgeon did not believe that as his sermons and the Catechism he used teach truth on these matters. No he remained faithful to scripture and preached on both sides of the sword as he railed against Arminian thought.

    Now you say the emphasis was on believing or not believing. ...but not election or predestination as if they are two separate and unrelated things......this is where you go wrong again.
    Biblical theology links all things together. Once again.....every verse does not use every word or every doctrine does not have to be mentioned every single time. .....but the truth does nor disappear as you would want it to.

    For anyone to suggest that CHS was not a full 5 pt Christian is dishonest.......so.I am sure you are not suggesting that.....right?
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2015
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  11. Rippon

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    I take the utmost comfort.

    Here are some snips from Charles H. Spurgeon's sermon : The Blood Of The Everlasting Covenant.

    "All for who Christ died shall be pardoned, all justified, all adopted. The Spirit shall quicken them all, shall give them all faith, shall bring them all to heaven..."

    "...let us see what were the objects of this covenant. Was this covenant made for every man of the race of Adam? Assuredly not..."

    "The covenant --to come at once straight to the matter, however offensive the doctrine may be --the covenant has relationship to the elect and none besides. Does this offend you?"
     
  12. Iconoclast

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    :thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:
     
  13. revmwc

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    Faith saves and those who diligently seek HIM are rewarded. The writer of Hebrews that is the Holy Spirit says they come to God by Faith and those who come seeking are rewarded.

    He paid the price for the sin of everyone.
    But according to Romans many things will occur for a person until Faith in Christ comes.

    In the flesh that is one who has not believed upon of Christ, the motions of sin by the law worked in their life just it worked in our life. Being delivered from the dead that is delivered from being separated from God Spiritually, we can serve in newness of Spirit. The Grace Covenant is effective in the Dispensation of Grace. The Jewish believer was to follow the law but since they couldn't they offered propitiatory sacrifices each year, that sacrifice has been paid for all.

    Because of Faith we have the Spirit of God and He indwells and fills us again something that the O.T. believer didn't have and part of the New Testamant covenant in the Dispensation of grace. The Holy Spirit is in us to teach us but we must be filled with the Spirit in order to understand spiritual things and that Happens first at Salvation and then must be manintained bhy Confession of sin.

    Without faith we cannot have imputation of Righteousness, you see Believing on Christ saves, the payment or appeasement for sin has been paid in full by Christ for all mankind but Righteous, right standing with God and His righteousness cannot occur without faith.

    Righteousness is from Faith, while the propitiatory sacrifice is paid one cannot have the Righteousness required by God without faith. That is Faith in the one who paid the ultimate Price and brought salvation to all who believe. Faith brings justification that is God will not act in removing the guilt and penalty of sin while at the same time declaring a sinner righteous through Christ's atoning sacrifice until Faith occurs. The atoning sacrifice is made by Jesus and accomplished by His efficacious death on the cross. Propitiation has been accomplished for all that makes the Dispensation of grace and the covenant of effective for all who believe.

    God set forth Christ as the propitiation, faith in His blood brings a declaration of righteousness for all who come in faith. We are declared justified not by His propitiation but by our Faith in that Propitiation.

    Because of the Covenant of Grace in the Dispensation of Grace all mankind can be saved by Faith in Christ plus nothing. They must only believe in the Savior, that is the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
    #13 revmwc, Jun 30, 2015
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  14. DHK

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    You don't have to lecture me about Spurgeon. All of my quotes have been taken from one the sermon, the same sermon that I gave you the reference to you. As you just admitted you were deceitful and took quotes from another sermon trying to make Spurgeon contradict what he said. Thus his words were out of context weren't they?

    Spurgeon would consider you a rabid hyper-Calvinist and would disagree with you if he were alive today.
    In the same sermon that I quoted from yesterday I will quote from again:
    Even as a professed Calvinist you don't agree with what Spurgeon believed. He believed that Salvation was by faith in Christ, that one must believe in order to be saved.
    "The most needful point was looking to Jesus." That is not what you believe.
    Is it?
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    Rmc

    Hebrews 11 is the faith chapter and that is great all by itself......

    This thread however is about the children given from The Father to The Son.

    Try and address that idea.

    1 jn 2 dealing with propitiation is also a good topic and yet that also is not the topic of this thread.

    It looks like you are still not understanding biblical propitiation yet.....perhaps we can have a thread or two on it.

    Yes......you are raising issues....now your dispensation of grace idea......not the focus here.

    Focus on the children given by the Father.....
     
  16. Iconoclast

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    You cannot be honest at all evidently.

    I posted from Spurgeon to show what he actually believed as he used the same Confession and Catechism I use.

    Your attempt to try and portray me as dishonest is both shallow and disingenuous :thumbs:

    Spurgeon would give 4 thumbs up to my posts and reject yours.When I get to a Keyboard I will bury you in a new thread of Spurgeon sermons and quotes that reject your falsehoods quite clearly.
    Others here who have read Spurgeon know what is coming....lol....:laugh::laugh:

    I have all of Spurgeon writings.....all his sermons.....I know what you do not but as you persist in your dishonest statements I will take it upon myself to help you get your mind right....:thumbs:
     
  17. SovereignGrace

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    You can see the central theme of the bible is Christ and His peoples.

    In Ezekiel 34, this is a wonderful picture of Him being their Shepherd.

    In Hosea, you can see a picture of Christ being the ever faithful Husband who buys His bride back.

    In Exodus 12, you can see Him as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    In Leviticus 16, you can see Him as the Sinbearer by being the Scapegoat that took their sins into the wilderness.

    In Numbers 20, you can see Him as the Rock that brought forth water after it was smoted by Moses.

    In all of these passages, there was a peoples God had in mind, His sheep, the Lamb's bride.
     
  18. DHK

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    I don't want a thread of Spurgeon quotes. That is not my purpose.
    I gave you one solid sermon on a text on John 3:36 which, if exegeted properly, requires one to admit that one must believe in order to be saved. Spurgeon knew that and is honest in his exegesis. The Calvinists here are not honest but cling to their Calvinism in spite of what the Bible says.

    Spurgeon set aside his Calvinism when the Bible said otherwise. He admitted as much.

    They confess all the five points of Calvinism, but they have not come to the one most needful point of looking unto Jesus, that they may be saved.
    --But your devotion to Calvin and your pride won't allow you to do the same.
     
  19. Iconoclast

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    DHK

    Even as a professed Calvinist you don't agree with what Spurgeon believed. He believed that Salvation was by faith in Christ, that one must believe in order to be saved.
    "The most needful point was looking to Jesus." That is not what you believe.
    Is it?


    Once again you try and speak for me and show yourself to need to sit in the corner like a bad little boy wearing the dunce cap....lol
    Every Christian believes in the 5 solas....Do not a. Use me of such a thing unless you post where I say such
     
  20. DHK

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    Will do.
    In a now closed thread, in this post:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2238443&postcount=308

    you said:
    Go back and read the quotes by Spurgeon. His whole emphasis was:
    Go home and read your Bibles. Understand what the Gospel is. There is no excuse for you not to understand. We are not in the middle of Africa. There is no excuse for your unbelief. There is no excuse for you not to be saved.

    This is directly opposite to what you believe.
    He does not believe in the doctrine of reprobation. If he does he contradicts himself in this sermon where he tells the unconverted to go home, understand, and believe. You have no excuse.

    He preaches sola fide; you throw it out the window.
     

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