The SBC and Calvinism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Michael Wrenn, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    How much has Calvinism infiltrated the SBC? I haven't been a regular attender at an SBC church for a long time, just an occasional visitor. But I'm thinking of returning on a regular basis. I still have membership in a SBC church, although I am also a member of the CBF, which only requires a $1 per year contribution from an individual to be a member! :)

    Anyway, this veil of tears is gloomy enough without having that added to by a Calvinist assault every Sunday.
     
  2. 12strings

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    Here's a Quick Run-Down for you from information I have heard the last few years (all unofficial, of Course). Hope it is helpful.

    1. Seminaries:
    -Southern Seminary (SBTS) puts out the most Calvinists Pastors, led by Al Mohler, a Calvinist. (interstingly, None of the DEANS at sbts would identify themselves as calvinists, though many other of the professors would.
    -Southeastern may be second, as Danny Akin is probalby a 3-4 pointer, and has no problem with calvinists.
    -Southwestern (texas) is strongly against calvinism, led by Paige Patterson.
    -Midwestern, New Orleans, Golden Gate...I haven't heard anything...they don't make the news.

    2. Pastors (quoted from Baptist Press):

    3. Churches: I would say the vast majority have members of all stripes on this issue, though majority Non-cal, I'm sure. Though I'm also sure it is Geographic to some extent surrounding the Seminaries. For example I live about an hour from Louisville (SBTS), and I know many of the Louisville churches are calvinistic, and many of the churches in our vicinity are pastored by calvinistic Men. I'm sure if you went to SBC churches around Southwestern you would find the opposite trend.

    (Disclaimer of possible bias: I am a recent SBTS Grad, Current Music & Youth Pastor at an SBC Church one hour from Louisville (for 5 years), mostly calvinistic in soteriology. My church has 3 other pastors, all calvinists, though we may argue about limited atonement. Our church has members on all sides of this issue, most are not calvinists...But I think most know that we are, and sometimes joke about it to us. We have had some lively Sunday school discussion about the issues...and we still all love each other. And we have one guy who seems to agree with Unconditional Election, but disagree with eternal security...so I don't know what he is...He might just be a Christian :thumbs:)
     
  3. Skandelon

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    First, you should know that many, if not most, of the founders of the SBC were "Reformed" theologically. So, instead of the word 'infiltrated' you may use the word 'resurgence.'

    Second, I don't think Calvinists are 'assaulting' anyone. Most are well meaning, loving, evangelistic, intelligent believers. Mislead, IMO, but not evil and assaulting.

    Third, you have the freedom in our country to pick a church and a denomination which best reflects your own views on the subject, so rejoice in that. :)

    Fourth, regarding the stats, I'm not sure they really tell you much because it is all in how you ask the question. If a question is asked just right my answers would make me sound like a 5-pointer, which we all know is not true. And the reverse is true as well. If you ask just the right questions Al Mohler would sound like John Wesley.
     
  4. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Thank you very much for your informative and Christlike response.
     
  5. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Yes, but I don't know which that would be -- probably the General Baptists, but the closest one of those is 90 minutes away.
     
  6. jonathan.borland

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    I appreciate the 1925 BF&M:

    VI. The Freeness of Salvation

    The blessings of salvation are made free to all by the gospel. It is the duty of all to accept them by penitent and obedient faith. Nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner except his own voluntary refusal to accept Jesus Christ as teacher, Saviour, and Lord.
     
  7. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Yes, I like that, too.
     
  8. mandym

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    The reformed view has always been a large part of the convention from its beginning. And while I do not agree with some of it the word "infiltrate" is not accurate or necessary.
     
  9. glfredrick

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    Indeed... What is currently called "Calvinism" as a derogatory term has been the mainstream of orthodox Christianity for most of the church age. It was breached by Pelagius who attempted to found a different track based on human effort and libertarian free will. Pelagius' attempts were revivied by others, both in and out of the Roman Catholic tradition, culminating in Trent, which was in turn picked up (along with Pelagius) by Arminius and pressed back into the world of the church. Later, Wesley drew on Arminius and modified his stance to what is close to a semi-Pelagian view, i.e., there is a distinct syncretistic endeavor in the salvific process.

    Certainly, if there is an "infiltration" it is not the Doctrines of Grace (called "Calvinism"), but the man-centered doctrines that pollute and pervert the view of God's sovereignty.
     
  10. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Then maybe I should have said "further infiltrate". :) :rolleyes:
     
  11. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    That is one of the worst untruths that I have ever read on this forum. You have not one shred of evidence for that; indeed, all the writings from the early church and later are absolute proof of the opposite: that the so-called and misnamed "Doctrines of Grace" were not taught then and were almost unknown until Calvin.
     
  12. mandym

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    And it would be incorrect. They are part of the founding. In fact a primary part of the founding of the convention. You may not agree with them or like them but the convention exists in part because of them. If you have a problem with them you have a problem with the convention as a whole. The two are not separate issues.
     
  13. glfredrick

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    Actually, that is precisely the truth. You should turn away from the weird web sites and read ACTUAL HISTORICAL THEOLOGY.
     
  14. mandym

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    It is you who does not know your history. You need to study Augustine for one. A couple of books that would enlighten your history are:

    The Doctrines That Divide ~Erwin Lutzer

    Across the Spectrum! Gregory A. Boyd / Paul R. Reddy

    Whosoever Will ~ Several Authors ie David Allen/Jerry Vines/Steve Lemke/Paige Patterson/Richard Land
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Your statement was that they had been a "large part". Not the entire part, though, so that was what I was getting at.
     
  16. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    I have already posted evidence in different places; no need to post further evidence.

    I'd be willing to bet that I have read much more historical theology than you.

    Calvinism was unknown in the early church. That's a fact that no amount of twisting can change, Mr. Checker. :)
     
    #16 Michael Wrenn, Feb 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2012
  17. 12strings

    12strings
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    I'm no history expert, especially regarding the early Fathers, but I think even a cursory overview of church history should at least leave you with the conclusion: "It was AUGUSTINE (not calvin) who invented these ridiculous ideas!" (If that were your view of things).
     
  18. mandym

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    You continue to say that and yet many people have asked for this evidence and have not seen any from you. Post after post asking you for your evidence and we have yet to see it.

    If that gives you comfort to believe that then so be it. But I gave you several book sources that refute your weird and false claim. And I am not a Calvinist.
     
  19. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    No, no, not Augustine, either. I have already shown that although there are some hints and slight similarities in Augustine, he was writing in an entirely different context and spiritual worldview than Calvin would later.

    Maybe I need to post that article again.
     
  20. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    By Calvinist authors, no doubt.
     

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