The SBC: S-lowly B-ecoming C-atholic?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ReformedBaptist, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
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  2. sag38

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    The link was to a paper on spiritual disciplines. So how is this leading the SBC to be Catholic?
     
  3. Mexdeaf

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    Then again it could all just be in your mind.:rolleyes:
     
  4. sag38

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    I think he provided the wrong link. If not, he'll have to do a lot more explaining to make the connection. Maybe it's because Richard Foster and Dallaw Willard are referenced.
     
  5. Marcia

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    t's straight from the Catholic Church. A lot of evangelical churches/groups are adopting practices and teachings, such as a Spiritual Director, and the "spiritual disciplines" from the Catholics. Also, if you read the beginning, there is recommendation to read books by Catholic mystics and that we should "practice the presence of Christ."

    I do not agree with the term "spiritual discipline" nor that all the supposed "disciplines" are even biblical. Many of them were taken from the so-called "Desert Fathers" who are now being revered by non-Catholics. These Desert Fathers were often ascetics and lived isolated lives (fleeing from persecution, I believe). Their experiences are not authoritative for Christian faith and practice.

    There is also influence from "The Cloud of Unknowing." I've read it and I can tell you that I would not recommend it to anyone. The writer, like all Catholic mystics of the time, believed that one reached unity with God through 3 stages (purgation and illumination are two of them). Is this biblical? Of course not! But you wouldn't believe the number of evangelicals who tout this book and the writings of other mystics.

    I realize that some Catholic mystics may have some okay things to say, but not enough to be worthwhile reading, imo. After all, they are coming from the viewpoint of Catholic teachings on salvation and justification, which differ from what Baptists supposedly believe. Many of their teachings are based on supposed revelations from God, which I do not believe came from God (such as Theresa of Avila and Julian of Norwich - some of their stuff is downright bizarre).

    This infiltration of mystical teachings has been increasing the past few years. It is quite worrisome.

    When we have the very word of God and even some good evangelical writers, why go to the Catholic church? It's really depressing.
     
    #5 Marcia, Dec 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2009
  6. Marcia

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    Richard Foster, a Quaker, has been very influenced by Catholics Thomas Keating and Basil Pennington and teaches some of their stuff. I do not trust Foster's discernment, especially after reading "The Spirit of the Disciplines." Some of it is New Age-y, but that goes along with mysticism nicely.

    Notice also that the document quotes emergent leader Tony Jones (the Emergents are in love with Catholic mysticism) and the document also promotes lectio divina, a mystical way of reading Bible passages that comes from Catholicism. It is not a biblical way to read scripture; it's a mystical and ridiculous way to read scripture.

    When you get right down to it, these disciplines are actually very legalistic, just like the Catholic Church.
     
  7. sag38

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    Ok, I understand now that it is better explained. I've read one of the books and thought it was over the top in that it seemed to have a works based approach to spiritual growth.

    Plus, I seriously doubt that this would be accepted by most in the SBC.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    Yea it is not necessary to paint the entire SBC with this miserable mystical teaching. It is but a few that buy into it. Although there are some prominent people like Beth Moore who are pushing this stuff.
     
  9. Trotter

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    Anyone actually look at the site? It is a paper on the Alabama Baptist Convention State Board of Missions. This is not on the SBC site, or even the Alabama State convention's site, but the state BOM's site.

    So, just how does this automatically equate to the SBC kissing the pope's posterior?
     
  10. Marcia

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    Whether it's in the SBC or not, some SBC people promote it. Just look at the "Be Still" DVD. I have an article on it. There is Dallas Willard (he's SBC, isn't he?), Beth Moore, and an SBC prof though I forget his name.

    http://christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_BeStillDVD.html

    The more serious matter is that it is invading lost of conservative seminaries and churches, SBC or not.
     
  11. Trotter

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    The DVD is by Fox Entertainment, not Lifeway. I have not seen the DVD, but I do practice silence before God. The the psalm says, "Be still and know that I am God." I often pause while praying and listen for God instead of me keeping up a constant chatter. this doesn't seem to be the same as this video promotes, but it is not a SBC production.

    Every group has some fringe elements. The SBC is huge and is not dogmatic about things. The Baptist Faith and Message, while it lays out the beliefs, is not an overly restrictive document. I am syre that there are those within the SBC who have these views, but that does not equate to all having them.

    Taking a single instance from the fringe and trying to apply to all with a broad brush won't cut it with me, especially when I am one of those being painted.
     
  12. Aaron

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    Catholic? No. The SBC is becoming Charismatic.
     
  13. Trotter

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    Bapticostal, huh? :p
     
  14. sag38

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    Aaron, where's your proof of this or are you giving your opinion. Some in the SBC may be more pentecostal in nature but to paint us all with the same brush is not fair just as saying the entire SBC is headed toward Catholicism isn't fair either. I'm SBC and my church is far from Pentecostal and we certainly don't emphasize mysticism in our discipleship.
     
  15. John Toppass

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    What is very sad is that someone would charge the whole SBC with something written someone not even affiliated with the SBC (Foster is a Quaker). But I guess it is easy when it is practiced daily.
     
  16. Mexdeaf

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    What is sad is that there are well-meaning but misguided people in every group who take delight in pointing out every minuscule splinter in other groups while ignoring the logs in their own.
     
  17. rbell

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    Agreed. The OP was trollish in his behavior.
     
  18. Aaron

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    1) several articles like this one: http://www.baptistcourier.com/1634.article
    2) I have eyes. I spent some time in the Charismatic camp and know what to look for.
    3) The SBC has bought wholesale into their method of worship, though they're not as good at it. They're getting better, though.
    4) Statements by prominent SBC leaders who claim to hear God speaking to them.
    5) Statements by many SBC members on this board.
     
  19. preachinjesus

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    Just fyi, "the SBC" can't really become anything...since it is a loose confederation of autonomous local churches cooperating in missions there is truly no definite statement on "the SBC"

    Besides, this isn't a big deal. I practice daily spiritual disciplines that include:
    * Fasting
    * Solitary prayer
    * Journaling
    * Prayer walking
    * Following a daily lectionary
    * Including some aspects of the Lectio Divina
    (Obviously not all on the same day)

    I believe practicing spiritual disciplines is important to developing a powerful spiritual life. Some of my greatest moments of personal spiritual development have been through these disciplines.

    If Latin scares ya, I got some bad news for you...there's a lot more out there ;)
     
  20. sag38

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    Aaron, a private prayer language does not make one "pentecostal." They actually believe that you have to speak in tongues to be saved. I don't know of anyone who who believes in a personal prayer language who believes that. Now, as to the rest of your op, once again, it's opinion. BTW I've never spoken in tongues and don't go looking too. It's not an expectation in my walk with Christ nor do I know of anyone else who goes looking for it.
     

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