The Second Coming Of Our Lord Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Sep 9, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I have posted on a number of threads the following Doctrines regarding the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ as they have been held throughout Baptist History until some Baptists were seduced by the Darby/Scofield error called dispensationalism. I do not believe that any dispensationalist has as yet given any response to justify discarding historic, and most importantly Biblical Doctrine, in order to embrace dispensational error.

    This is a rather long OP but I am certain that the dispensationalists on this Forum in their diligent search for the truth will take time to read and respond.

    The following is taken from Abstract of Systematic Theology by James P. Boyce, one of the founders of the first Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

    "When the original charter of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary was adopted in 1858, it contained the following statement which continues as a part of the “fundamental laws.” Every professor of the institution shall be a member of a regular Baptist church; and all persons accepting professorships in this seminary shall be considered, by such acceptance, as engaging to teach in accordance with, and not contrary to, the Abstract of Principles hereinafter laid down, a departure from which principles on his part shall be considered grounds for his resignation or removal by the Trustees, to wit:

    Articles 19 & 20 of the Abstract of Principles

    XIX. The Resurrection
    The bodies of men after death return to dust, but their spirits return immediately to God—the righteous to rest with Him; the wicked, to be reserved under darkness to the judgment. At the last day, the bodies of all the dead, both just and unjust, will be raised.

    XX. The Judgment
    God hath appointed a day, wherein He will judge the world by Jesus Christ, when every one shall receive according to his deeds; the wicked shall go into everlasting punishment; the righteous, into everlasting life."



    The following are taken from Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin

    The Midland Association Confession [1655]

    Article 16 [page 200, Lumpkin].

    “That at the time appointed of the Lord, the dead bodies of all men, just and unjust shall rise out of their graves, that all may receive according to what they have done in their bodies, be it good or evil.”


    The Somerset Confession [1656]

    Article XL [page 214].

    “That there is a day appointed, when the Lord shall raise the unjust as well as the righteous, and judge them all in righteousness, but every man in his own order, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, whose punishment will be everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.”

    The Standard Confession [1660]

    Article XX [page 231].

    “That there shall be [through Christ who was dead but is alive again from the dead] a Resurrection of all men from the graves of the earth, both the just and the unjust, that is, the fleshly bodies of men, sown into the graves of the earth, corruptible, dishonourable, weak, natural, [which so considered cannot inherit the Kingdom of God] shall be raised again, incorruptible, in glory, in power, spiritual, and so considered, the bodies of the Saints [united again to their spirits] which here suffer for Christ, shall inherit the Kingdom, reigning together with Christ.”

    Article XXI [page 231].

    “That there shall be after the Resurrection from the graves of the earth, An eternal Judgment, at the appearing of Christ and His Kingdom, at which time of judgment which is unalterable, and irrevocable, every man shall receive according to the things done in his body.”bb


    The Second London Confession [1677, 1689]

    Chapter XXXI. Of the State of Man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 293]

    “1. The Bodies of Men after Death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls [which neither die nor sleep] having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the Souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into Paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day; besides these two places for Souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth none.

    2. At the last day such of the Saints as are found alive shall not sleep but shall be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies, and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their Souls again forever.

    3. The bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ be raised to dishonour; the bodies of the just by His Spirit unto honour, and be made conformable to His own glorious body.”


    Chapter XXXII. Of the Last Judgment [page 294]

    “1. God hath appointed a Day wherein He will judge the world in Righteousness, by Jesus Christ; to Whom all power and judgment is given of the Father; in which Day not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, Words, and Deeds, and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.

    2. The end of Gods appointing this Day is for the manifestation of the glory of His Mercy, in the Eternal Salvation of the Elect, and of His Justice in the Eternal damnation of the Reprobate who are wicked and disobedient; for then shall the Righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of Joy, and Glory, with everlasting reward in the presence of the Lord; but the wicked who know not God, and obey not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, shall be cast into Eternal torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.

    3. As Christ would have us to be certainly persuaded that there shall be a Day of judgment, both to deter all men from sin and for greater consolation of the godly, in their adversity; so will he have that day unknown to Men, that they may shake off all carnal security, and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour, the Lord will come; and may ever be prepared to say, Come Lord Jesus, Come quickly, Amen.”

    The Philadelphia Confession of 1742 is essentially the same as the Second London Confession.


    The Orthodox Creed [1679]

    Article XLIX. Of the State of man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 333]

    “The bodies of men after death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls, or spirits, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day. And besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies, the holy scripture mentions none. At the last day such of the saints as are found alive shall not sleep but be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their souls forever and forever, but the bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ, as a severe and just judge, be raised to dishonour; and the bodies of the just and righteous by His Spirit, as He is the head of the catholic Church, unto honour, and be made conformable with His glorious body, and shall enjoy everlasting life; in singing perpetual praises and hallelujahs to God for ever and ever. Amen.”

    Article L. Of the last Judgment [page 334]

    “And lastly, we believe God hath appointed a day, wherein He will judge the world in righteousness, by Jesus Christ, to Whom all power, and judgment is given of the Father; in which day, not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds, and shall receive a just sentence, according to what they have done in their bodies, whether good or evil, when God according to His purpose, will manifest the glory of His mercy, in the salvation of His elect, and of His justice in the eternal damnation of the wicked and disobedient; for then shall the righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of joy and glory, but the wicked who know not God, nor obey the gospel offered them in Christ, shall be cast into everlasting torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power. Amen.”


    The New Hampshire Confession [1833]

    Article XVIII. Of the World to Come [page 367, Lumpkin]

    “We believe that the end of this world is approaching: that at the last day, Christ will descend from heaven, and raise the dead from the grave to final retribution; that a solemn separation will then take place; that the wicked will be adjudged to endless punishment and the righteous to endless joy; and that this judgment will fix forever the final state of men in heaven or hell, on principles of righteousness.”
     
  2. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    OR, I have not studied eschatology and what I know about amill, premill, the rapture, dispensationalism, etc., has just been picked up by me reading here and there and discusson with others.

    I read through your OP. Can you point out specifically which of the above statements dispensationalism disagrees with? Thanks.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    A poll on the Baptist Board at:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/2831.html

    shows:

    Poll Results: #2 THE RAPTURE (20 votes.)
    #2 THE RAPTURE
    Choose 1
    physical literal 70% (14)

    spiritual literal 10% (2)

    physical figurative 5% (1)

    spiritual figurative 0% (0)

    Apathy &/or Ignorance: I don't know or I don't care 15% (3)


    So the ideas against Dispensationalism and
    the Rapture are a minority position on the
    board. But we can expect that that minority
    will claim tribulation from the majority,
    especially when the majority is right ;)
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is the main rapture scripture:

    1 Thessalonians 4:17 (The Latin Vulgate):

    deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur
    cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

    This Latin Vulgate is were we get the "caught up" as
    the "rapture". In Latin the form of "rapture" that belongs
    in this sentence is "rapiermur" having to do with case, number,
    gender, etc, etc.

    I prefer to call the pretribulation
    event the "caught up" [​IMG]
     
  5. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    0
    Early Church has no position for rapture timing. Because they never used word, 'rapture' for teaching on second coming. All early Christians understood, that our gathering together shall be at Christ's coming at the end according what the scripture saith. Also, none of early Christians were teaching on split comings. That was not yet existed doctrine in their time. Till 19th Century, 'split comings' teaching appeared new to them.
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    The Abstract of Principles and the various Confessions cited above teach a general resurrection of all the dead and a general judgment when Jesus Christ returns, consistent with John 5:28, 29. It follows from the doctrine of a general resurrection and judgment that there will be no earthly millennial reign of Jesus Christ on the present earth. Rather upon the return of Jesus Christ and the judgment of Satan and his followers there will be a new heavens and new earth where all the redeemed will dwell in the presence of the Triune God eternally. Dispensationalism teaches that there will be multiple resurrections and judgments and, therefore, is in disagreement with all the above statements..

    If you are interested in learning more about eschatology may I suggest the book The Meaning of the Millennium edited by Clouse. It briefly presents the four major viewpoints regarding the return of Jesus Christ. For more indepth study I would recommend the Bible and the Future by Anthony A. Hoekema. Hoekema, who discusses the Millennium in Clouse's book from an amillennial viewpoint, also covers the four major doctrines of the Second Coming.

    I believe very strongly that the amillennial doctrine of the Second Coming is more attuned to both the teaching of Scripture and the Historic Baptist Faith. However, I also wish to state unequivocably that one's understanding of the events concerning the return of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with their salvation.
     
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ed

    I am asking for justification for rejecting historic Baptist doctrines not taking a poll. Also when it comes to matters of Scriptural interpretation the majority is never right. :D
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I know where the word rapture comes from but I never did trust the Romanists. What I would like some dispensationalist to do is present the justification for being seduced by Darby/Scofield away from Biblical and Historic Baptist Doctrine.
     
  9. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ooops! I was not finish with post.

    There is none scripture anywhere in the Bible teaching on split coming. Early Christians believed there shall be a single future coming at the end of the age.

    I do not believe that, the Bible gives strange or too deep teaching on the second coming. I believe the Bible gives us the simple and clear teaching on second coming. We should accept and believe what the Bible saying.

    Matt. 24:31 - two comingS?

    Matt. 13:39-42- two comingS?

    Matt. 25:31 - two comingS?

    Mark 13:27 - two comingS?

    Luke 21:28 - two comingS?

    John 14:1-3 - two comingS?

    Acts 1:8- two comingS?

    1 Cor. 15:23 - two comingS?

    1 Cor. 15:52 - two comingS?

    1 Thess. 1:10 - two comingS?

    1 Thess. 5:9 - two comingS?

    1 Thess. 4:15-17 - two comingS?

    2 Thess. 1:7-10 - two comingS?

    2 Thess. 2:1 - two comingS?

    Hebrews 9:28 - THIRD coming??

    2 Peter 3:12 - two comingS?

    1 John 2:28 - two comingS?

    1 John 3:2 - two comingS?

    Jude 14-15 - two comingS?

    Revelation 1:7 - two comingS?

    Revelation 16:15 - two comingS?

    Revelation 19:11-21 - two comingS?

    Can you find any hint verse in the Bible saying that Christ shall come again two times in the future?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  10. James_Newman

    James_Newman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amillennialists agree, there is no kingdom. But I must point out that while Mr Boyce says that all the dead will be raised up on the last day, my bible says different:
    Revelation 20:5
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    Clearly some people will be raised up at the first resurrection and some people will be raised up a thousand years later. So Mr Boyce is wrong.
     
  11. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    0
    'the rest of the dead' is speak of unbelievers, not believers.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  12. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    0
    The kingdom is already present both in heaven and earth. Christ already brought the kingdom of God/heaven to earth 2000 years ago. Kingdom have no end, it is an everlasting kingdom.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  13. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Amillennialists agree, there is no kingdom. But I must point out that while Mr Boyce says that all the dead will be raised up on the last day, my bible says different:
    Revelation 20:5
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    Clearly some people will be raised up at the first resurrection and some people will be raised up a thousand years later. So Mr Boyce is wrong.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Please tell me what the Bible records as the FIRST and only resurrection to date.

    Also the Abstract of Principles is still in effect at Southern Seminary. Boyce was only one of three founders of the Southern Seminary, originally at Greenville, South Carolina, now at Louisville, Kentucky. The other two were John A. Broadus and Basil Manly, Jr., from which comes the name Broadman Press, so the Abstract of Principles is not simply an invention of Boyce.

    Also you ignored the teachings on the many Confessions of Faith that I presented which also teach a general resurrection and judgment. Do you suppose the divines who wrote these Confessions, as well as Boyce, Broadus, and Manly, were ignorant of Revelation 20:5?

    May I also point out that John 5:28, 29, which is clearly written to be interpreted literally, teaches a general resurrection and judgment. Revelation 20:5 is contained in an apocalyptic book written primarily in language which makes use of metaphors, similies, etc..
     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    It is important to note that the implications of a general resurrection and judgment are not trivial in today’s theological climate.

    A general resurrection and judgment means that there is no secret rapture of the church prior to any period of great tribulation, and no millennial reign. The Church will remain on earth until they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [Matthew 24:30, KJV] and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen [Revelation 1:7, KJV]. Whatever tribulation comes before that time the Church will endure just as Jesus Christ taught and just as the history of the Church bears witness. In fact Scripture teaches repeatedly that tribulation is the norm of life for the Saints, the true believers.

    John F. Walvoord, the preeminent dispensationalist theologian and former president of the Dallas Theological Seminary confesses that the validity of the pre-tribulation ‘rapture’ depends on the definition of the Church [Major Bible Prophecies, page 282]. Before presenting Walvoord’s remarks concerning this question it is worthwhile to consider the definition of the Church as presented in The Baptist Faith and Message [Section VI] adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention in Atlanta, Georgia on June 14, 2000.

    “The New Testament also speaks of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all the redeemed of all ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

    Walvoord writes, regarding the definition of the church, [Major Bible Prophecies, page 282]:

    “If the question be asked: Will the church be raptured before end-time events? it becomes very important to define the church as an entity that is distinct from Israel or saints in general. In prophetic passages concerning the Tribulation, both Israelites and Gentiles are described, and some of them have faith in Christ and form a godly remnant. If they are part of the church, then the church is in the Tribulation, and the whole question as to whether the church goes through the Tribulation becomes moot."

    We see that, according to Walvoord, the Southern Baptist Faith and Message is contrary to a pre-trib rapture.
     
  15. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Using the logic of DeafPosttrib in his
    "two comingS" post above we could
    prove the non-existance of a trinity.

    There are three members of the Holy Trinity
    and frequently in the Bible only one is mentioned
    in a particular scripture.

    So if you listed all the verses where only
    one member of the Trinity is mentioned, you would have
    a list like the "two comingS" post above.
    That certainly does not prove there are NOT two
    parts to the second coming.

    Ed's counting lesson:

    Method one (this is the method used by the Bible):

    1a. coming of Jesus as a babe in Bethelhem
    1b. return of Jesus to earth with victory over death & hell
    2a. pretribulation rapture/resurrection coming of Jesus
    2b. postribulation coming of Jesus to destroy antichrist
    ----and set up the physical Millinnial Kingdom (MK) of Christ

    This is an interesting yo-yo method:
    1. coming of Jesus as a babe in Bethelhem
    2. return of Jesus to earth with victory over death & hell
    3. pretribulation rapture/resurrection coming of Jesus
    4. postribulation coming of Jesus to destroy antichrist
    ----and set up the physical Millinnial Kingdom (MK) of Christ

    Here is the comptuer method:
    0. coming of Jesus as a babe in Bethelhem
    1. return of Jesus to earth with victory over death & hell
    2. pretribulation rapture/resurrection coming of Jesus
    3. postribulation coming of Jesus to destroy antichrist
    ----and set up the physical Millinnial Kingdom (MK) of Christ

    Here is the millinnial kingdom method:

    1a. coming of Jesus as a babe in Bethelhem
    2a. return of Jesus to earth with victory over death & hell
    1b. pretribulation rapture/resurrection coming of Jesus
    2b. postribulation coming of Jesus to destroy antichrist
    ----and set up the physical Millinnial Kingdom (MK) of Christ

    There are also other ways to count events according to
    elements of similarity.

    There is no reading of any Bible passage (AKA: scripture)
    that PREVENTS multiple phases of the Blessed Second
    Coming of our Lord and Savior: Messiah Yeshua.
     
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. I have not rejected historic Baptist doctrines

    2. If the historic Baptist doctrine was not
    pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection -
    then it was another case of the 'majority
    is never right'.

    My pastor said when he went to SouthWestern
    Theological Seiminary in Fort Worth Texas
    (that would be in the 60s) that they were
    physcial Second coming/spiritual MK
    (AKA: post-tribulation, a-mill).

    Personally i've been a pretrib, pre-mill the
    53 years I have been a Christian, teaching
    the Word what was intrusted to me.
    My respect for ex-pre-tribs is not as high
    as for post-trib, a-mills who were faithful.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    I use the Bible to teach my pre-tribulation
    rapture/resurrection theory NOT the works
    of folks like Darby and Scofield.

    BTW, it is really bothersome for people to
    accuse me of a 'secret rapture' because i
    don't teach it.

    BTW, it is really bothersome for people to
    denounce 'dispensationalism' without even
    bother to tell us what they are talking about.
    I'm not even sure i beleive in the
    'dispensationalism' they are talking about, but
    don't know cause they won't tell me what it
    means.
     
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here are the passages:
    ----------------------------------

    \o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

    \o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

    2 Thessalonians 2:1 (KJV1873):
    Now we beseech you, brethren,
    by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    and by our gathering together unto him,

    Two events mentioned here:
    1) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
    2) our gathering together unto him

    Titus 2:13 (KJV1873):
    Looking for that blessed hope,
    and the glorious appearing of the great God
    and our Saviour Jesus Christ

    Two events mentioned here:
    1) blessed hope
    2) the glorious appearing of the great God
    and our Saviour Jesus Christ


    These two events are mentioned seperately
    throughout the Bible. The Rapture, which
    was a mystery in the O.T. is now mentioned
    in the N.T.

    Rapture Passages (the gathering, the blessed hope):

    Matthew 24:31-44 (in the Mount Olivet Discourse
    ---/mod/ and parallel passages in Mark 13 & Luke 21)
    John 14:1-3
    Romans 8:19
    1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 15:51-53, 16:22
    Philippians 3:20-21, 4:5
    Colossians 3:4
    1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:19, 4:13-18, 5:9,23
    2 Thessalonians 1:7, 2:1, 2:3
    1 Timothy 6:14
    2 Timothy 4:1,8
    Hebrews 9:28
    1 Peter 1:7,13, 5:4
    1 John 2:28-3:2
    Jude 1:21
    Revelation 2:25

    Second Advent Passages
    (Jesus comes again in power and glory
    to defeat the antichrist and set up the
    millinnial kingdom):

    Daniel 2:44-45, 7:9-14, 12:1-3
    Zechariah 12:10, 14:1-15
    Matthew 13:41
    Matthew 24:15-30, 26:64
    Mark 13
    Luke 21
    Acts 1:9-11, 3:19-21
    1 Thessalonians 3:13
    2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, 2:8
    1 Peter 4:12-19
    2 Peter 3:1-14
    Jude 1:14-15
    Revelation 4-19
    ---------------------------
    Note these are the same passages used by
    those who are not pretrib & pre-mill
    like I am. Please don't repeat a lot of
    passages of scripture unless you show us
    how those passages support your eschatological
    leaning. If you do post scripture, please
    tell me which Bible, which version of that Bible,
    which edition of that Bible. I have a
    Borean call - i have to check all the scriptures
    out to see if you got them right.
     
  19. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Midland Association Confession [1655]

    Article 16 [page 200, Lumpkin].

    “That at the time appointed of the Lord, the dead bodies of
    all men, just and unjust shall rise out of their graves,
    that all may receive according to what they have done
    in their bodies, be it good or evil.”


    This confession does not preclude my belief which is
    that the Lord has appointed different times for different
    groups of the just to "rise out of their graves, that all
    may receive according to what they have done in their
    bodies, be it good or evil"
    and a seperate time for the unjust.

    Thus i must agree to this x-trib nuteral confession.
    Amen Feller Christians of the Midland Asso!
     
  20. Me4Him

    Me4Him
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,214
    Likes Received:
    0
    Before you can understand the pre trib rapture you'll have to understand the "FEAST DAYS" and the "TRINITY".

    I'm not going to post the scriptures about the feast, but you can read Lev 23.

    [​IMG]

    As the chart shows, all the "FEAST" correspond to "EVENTS" in the NT.

    Jesus as the "PASSOVER LAMB", only protected the "FIRSTBORN", keep this in mind, it's "VERY" important.

    Jesus was also the "FIRSTFRUIT" to God, another way of saying "FIRSTBORN", the church, as the "BODY OF CHRIST" is the "FIRSTFRUIT/FIRSTBORN".

    Here's a "brief explanation" of why Israel enter the trib.

    Ps 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

    Ps 89:30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

    31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

    32 Then will I visit their transgression with the ROD, and their iniquity with stripes.

    Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, (Antichrist) the ROD of mine anger, and the STAFF, (leadership) in their hand is mine indignation.

    The "ROD" God uses to "Chastise Israel" turns into a "Serpent" (satan) Just as Moses's rod turned into a "serpent".

    God does to Israel exactly what Paul told the church to do,

    1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Satan is given "DOMINION" (staff) over all kindren, tongues and nations.

    almost "EVERYONE" confessing Jesus during the trib will be "physically killed" (stripes in their flesh) (a "remanent" will survive)

    Now back to the "feast".

    The Feast of trumpets corresponds to the "rapture", the "LAST TRUMP(et) OF GOD" is the last "voice" of te "HOLY GHOST" (comforter) speaking to the Church.

    The "Comforter" is unique to the Church, Israel/OT did not have a "Comforter", and neither will they during the trib, Israel will return under the OT system of "law and prophet", the "TWO WITNESSES", Moses/Elijah.

    "Day of Atonement", or tribulation period.

    TWO GOATS were to be "sacrificed", one a "SCAPEGOAT" and one "KILLED". (Le 16:8-10)

    Jesus is the "SCAPEGOAT".

    The goat killed represent the "BODY OF SIN" or the "FLESH".

    The church sacrifices their "GOAT" when the "OLD MAN" is crucified.

    Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,

    This is a "SPIRITUAL DEATH" for the church.

    BUT, Israel chastisement during the trib will require them to "LITERALLY DIE" for Jesus salvation.

    As the "PASSOVER LAMB" Jesus made atonement for the church with/by "HIS BODY/STRIPES" (Isa 53) our goat is sacrificed with the "old man".

    Israel will make atonement through the "SCAPEGOAT" and with/by the stripes in their "OWN FLESH". (death)

    Since Jesus had already made atonement for the CHURCH, it will "LITERALLY, "PASSOVER" the coming "DAY OF ATONEMENT" for the rest of the World by the "Pre trib rapture".

    The Church offer their bodies a "LIVING SACRIFICE" to God.

    Those in the trib will offer their bodies a "DEAD SACRIFICE" to God.

    Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    The "present of the Comforter" forces satan to "FLEE" from Church saints, "HE" must be "taken out of the way" before Satan can have dominion over "ALL FLESH".

    And the "comforter" (voice of Jesus) is always "with us", even until the end of the world, when "HE" leaves, we leave.

    Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    You'll have to sort this out in your own mind to understand it, but you do know where to start.

    Just remember, Satan can never "PREVAIL" over the "BODY OF CHRIST".
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...