the Second Death

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jacinth, Nov 29, 2007.

  1. Jacinth

    Jacinth
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    I've been thinking about the second death as of late. It would appear to me that the first death is to the first Adam what the second death is to the second Adam. That is to say: Perhaps the first death is Adamic death whereas the second death is Christic death.

    The more I think about it, the more hard-pressed I am to come up with one functional difference between the Cross and the second death. For starters, both consist in the destruction of Adamic death (Revelation 20:14). Has anyone ever come across this interpretation before?
     
  2. Pastor_Bob

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    If you understand death as separation, it is clear to see that the first death is separation of the soul and body. All men experience this death. The second death is the separation of the soul from God. This is experienced only by the lost (Revelation 21:8).

    Born once - die twice; born twice - die once.
     
  3. Jacinth

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    Hi Pastor Bob,

    That is a very common understanding in Christian circles; one that I grew up beliving. Have you ever thought of the first and second deaths in the way I am talking about?
     
  4. BobRyan

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    It works - but Adam was doomed to die BOTH deaths when he sinned -- at that moment both were hanging over his head. But in accepting Christ as his savior - he is saved from one of those deaths -- the 2nd death.

    Christ is the only one who will ever suffer the 2nd death and live to tell about it.
     
  5. Jacinth

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    It works? Does that mean you accept this interpretation of the second death that I am proposing?

    Where in the Bible do you find indication that Christ spares people from the second death?
     
  6. LeBuick

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    Sorta, th old man dies when you're born again. In other words, the new man is dead to sin.

    Ro 6:4 (KJV) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
     
  7. trustitl

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    What is the second death?

    Rev. 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

    Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

    Rev. 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"

    Rev. 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

    Simplified the word says:
    Rev. 2:10-11
    The faithful and those who overcome do not need to fear it. It is contrasted to a crown of life.

    Rev. 20:6
    Those who have part in the first resurrection are free from it.

    Rev. 20:14-15
    The 2nd death is when death and hell get cast into the lake of fire. Those whose name is in the book of life won't go there.

    Rev. 21:7-8
    Here again, the lake of fire is the second death and it is not for those who overcome. It is not for God's children but is for those who are described as fearful, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters, and liars.
     
  8. JerryL

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    This is the line that gets me. This is akin to the WOF interpertation of Jesus going to and suffering in hell like a sinner. I don't think Christ suffered any kind of second death.
     
  9. Brother Bob

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    The second death is passed upon man when he sins. "the soul that sinneth shall die", but he can escape the second death by being "born again" in Christ Jesus.
    Where in the Bible does it say you can escape. For starters John the Baptist said "who has warned you to flee the wrath of God which is to come."

    1Cr 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    1Cr 15:23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    Jhn 11:25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:


    This is only a small portion of scripture of being made alive in Christ Jesus.

    BBob,
     
    #9 Brother Bob, Dec 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2007
  10. trustitl

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    Rev. 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"

    Therefore those whose name is in the book of life are "spared".
     
  11. BobRyan

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    In Romans 6 "the Wages of sin i death but the gift of God is eternal life".

    Rev 20 "The Second death -- lake of fire"

    John 11 "Lazarus is DEAD" -- "he who believes on me shall never die THOUGH he is dead YET shall he live".

    Isaiah 53 "He took the stroke that was DUE to us"

    Col 2 "He took the certificate of DEBT that WE OWED and nailed it to the cross"

    Heb 2 "He tasted the sufferings of death FOR EVERY one of mankind"

    1John 2:2 "He is the ATONING SACRIFICE for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the SINS of the WHOLE World"

    Substitutionary Atonement is specifically teachin about a "substitute" who pays the debt that you owe INSTEAD of your paying it.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Christ paid the full suffering of the second death that we owe "he took the stripes DUE to US" Isaiah 53.

    He took OUR "Certificate of DEBT" Col 2 and nailed our DEBT to the cross - by paying it.

    Of course WOF has a problem thinking that He did not do this when He said "IT IS FINISHED" - they think that after he died - he went to hell and STARTED paying after HE said "IT IS FINISHED".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. Sgt. Fury

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    2nd Death idea

    Jacinth,

    Rev 20:5-6 mention both a first resurrection and a second death. Would it be too much of a stretch to say that a second resurrection and a first death are implied? Perhaps another book by the same author (John) could shed some light on the subject. Here's what I think.


    In John 5:25-29, Jesus speaks of a couple of times, and a couple of groups.

    5:25 "...The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."

    Okay, first the time referenced here: Jesus speaks of His present (now is) and the furture (is coming), the Christian age.

    Next, the group. He cannot be speaking of the physically dead, for they hear nothing. I believe He speaks of those who have separated themselves from God through sin, the spiritually dead. He gave life to different people under different conditions during His earthly life, and under the New Testament, anyone who obeys the gospel has their sins forgiven and enjoys restored fellowship with God (aka - life).

    So the implied first death of Rev 20:5 would be spiritual separation from God due to sin, and the first resurrection is rising from the grave of baptism when one obeys the gospel.

    Continuing in John 5, Jesus goes on to say in 5:28,

    "...for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

    In this verse He speaks of a time in the furture. It seems clear to me that Jesus speaks of the final resurrection when He comes again here.

    The group is defined as those who are "in the graves", the physical remains of those who have died. The souls, of course, are alive and either in torment, or in Abraham's bosom, or paradise (Luke 16:22-23; 23:43). These would come forth at the voice of the Son of God and meet their eternal fate. I believe this is the implied second resurrection from Rev 20:6.

    The "second death" will be eternal separation from God. Those who have part in the first resurrection will not be hurt by the second death.

    A bit different from previous responses perhaps, but it makes sense to me. Let me know what you think.

    Sgt. Fury
     
  14. BobRyan

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    1. AGreed - those who have part in the first resurrection are not subject to the 2nd death.

    2. The second death comes after the 2nd resurrection which takes place 1000 years after the first resurrection.

    3. The second death is the lake of fire death according to Rev 20.

    4. Christ speaks of the 2nd death this way in Matt 10

    "Do not fear those who can kill the body but can not kill the soul -- fear Him who is able to destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell".

    In Rev 14 it is called the torment and burning of "Fire and brimstone". In Rev 20 it is "the lake of Fire". Very real. The suffering and torment of the 2nd death -- very real.

    Christ paid the suffering and torment "debt" owed by ALL mankind for all sins of all time and nailed that debt to the cross according to Col 2 our "CERTIFICATE OF DEBT" was nailed to the cross (NASB).

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. Linda64

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    This is how the Bible defines the "second death":

    Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    Revelation 20:6
    Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    Revelation 20:14
    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    Revelation 20:15
    And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    The second death, according to Scripture is when "death and hell are cast into the lake of fire."
     
    #15 Linda64, Jan 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2008
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE
    I don't know if I misunderstand you, but this to me looks like the established and correct Christian belief that the death Christ suffered for the many saved, was sin's reward of eternal death. Christ conquered eternal death and hell because He was God dying for the sins of men. The death of death in the death of Christ. (John Owen)
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Originally Posted by JerryL
    This is the line that gets me. This is akin to the WOF interpertation of Jesus going to and suffering in hell like a sinner. I don't think Christ suffered any kind of second death.

    GE
    Dear Jerryl, if you desire salvation you will have to accept Jesus Christ through suffering and dying 'the second death', died it in your stead. He died it by suffering death from the moment He emptied Himself and made Himself of no account through becoming man, until He suffered the final and climactic onslaught of all hell and eternal death, consciously and accutely aware, and died, giving over His spirit of life, into the hands of the Father.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    Mat 3:7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

    Mat 3:8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

    The First Baptist Preacher!!

    BBob, :thumbs:
     
  19. BobRyan

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    #1. Jesus said it IS to "destroy BOTH body and Soul in fiery hell" Matt 10:28.

    Matt 10
    28 ""Do not fear [b]those
    who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/b][/quote]

    Luke 12
    4 ""I say to you, My friends, [b]do not be afraid of those
    who kill the body[/b] and after that have no more that they can do.
    5 ""But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who,
    after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell[/b
    ]; yes, I tell you, fear Him!




    #2 Jude says it is not ONLY to
    "Destroy both body and soul in hell" (as Christ states in Matt 10) but is ALSO to "Convict all the ungodly of their ungodly deeds"

    #3. - John says that "
    they are judged ACCORDING to their deeds " Rev 20:12

    #4. and Christ said that in this judgment "according to deeds" - there is PROPORTIONAL degrees of punishment "
    he who KNEW his master's will and did NOT get read or act in accord with his will, shall receive MANY lashes, but he one who DID NOT KNOW it and committed deeds worthy of flogging will receive but FEW. And from everyone who has been given MUCH shall be required and to whom they entruested MUCH of him they will ask all the more. I have come TO CAST FIRE DOWN upon the earth and HOW I wish it were already kindled" Luke 12:47-48

    Matthew 25:41
    "Then He will also say to those on His left, ' Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the
    eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;


    Rev 20
    10 And the
    devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
     
    #19 BobRyan, Jan 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2008
  20. Askjo

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    Interesting!
     

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