Featured The Secret Rapture return of Christ approaches

No Scripture is based on this hate-filled invective:

Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

No, I don't believe there will be any announcement for the bride of Christ at all. Thus the Scripture: "One shall be working in the field; and the other left." It will be sudden, immanent, without notice, as a thief in the night, when no one expects it.
That is contrary to the Second Coming, which after seven years will be expected, which when the armies of Israel are all gathered against Israel and Israel is ready to receive their Messiah, will be expected. There will be some expectation of the Second Coming at that time.
But not the rapture. The events described in 1Thes.4 will no doubt be heard in heaven, not on earth. There will be no annoucement on earth for the Coming of Christ. Why should there be? Is the Lord going to give a second chance for some to be saved before He comes? No.

 

Even if there are still legitimate biblical grounds to dispute the pre trib rapture, and i still firmly hold that is the correct timing of events, my much bigger concern is for those among us who are able to miss the clearly laid out truth of a literal 1000 reigning of Jesus upon this earth at the time of His second coming...

 

"Clearly laid out truths" are those which, by implication, are taught several times in the Bible, and in various places - preferably expositional, not highly symbolic, passages. The "literal 1000 year reigning of Jesus" (sic), occurs in only one small section of a part of a book that is well-known for its use of imagery and symbolism.

A good example of a clearly laid out truth would be the present reign of Christ, heading toward 2000 years. This is clearly laid out in Hebrews, Ephesians, Acts, many other books, as well as Revelation.

 

Six times in seven verses in Rev.20:1-7 is the word "thousand" used.
Three of those times is used with the definite article, denoting nothing else but a definite period of time which cannot be spiritualized or allegorized, that is, the thousand years.
Thus is is a literal thousand years.

Yet, ironically, you want to allegorize another passage in the Bible which you call exposition and make it mean that Christ has ruled for 2,000 years. There is no such teaching found in scripture. It would take eisigesis and wild imagination to come to that conclusion.

 

Well, if the definite-article-equals-literalness is the route you want to go I will be happy to oblige (later today). But have you ever noticed some of the other nouns in revelation that have the definite article? Are you sure you want to use this as proof?

And, no, I don't "want to allegorize" anything. I want to understand the Bible as it is written. Spiritual passages as spiritual, historical as historical, literal as literal.

And it was not "another [implied, single] passage". It was several passages. My point is that the reign of Christ is already ongoing, spiritual and real, though unrecognized by today's Jews - and many Christians who have adopted their lapsed eschatology. And this truth, unlike the supposed 1000 year short reign of Christ, is found throughout the New Testament - with definite articles to boot : ) .

 

Wrong in every possible way. The text quoted "One shall be working in the field; and the other left" has zip to do with the rapture. Read the scriptures in context, not wrongly divided with the meat cleaver of dispensationalism.

Mat 24:38-40 NASB - "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.​

Those taken are taken in judgment. Clearly this isn't the rapture of the elect.

Luke's account is even more explicit:

Luk 17:35-37 NASB - "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."] And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."​

Those taken are taken in judgement, and are killed and become food for the carrion birds, not taken to Heaven. Stop twisting the scriptures.

Also, Christ will come as a thief in the night, unexpectedly, but that is the point of view of the wicked. They will not expect it, however the believers are told explicitly that the day of Christ will NOT overtake us like a thief:

1Th 5:2-6 NASB - For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.​

Pure fiction. There is nothing in scripture to support the idea of a 7 year tribulation period. The dispensational misinterpretation of Daniel 9 fails miserably.

Here is a perfect case of the dispensationalist abandoning their "literal" hermeneutic when it is convenient. Paul says there will be a trumpet a shot and the voice of the archangel, in the context of those who are alive and waiting on the Lord's return indicating that they will hear these things. That is not good for the dispensationalist, so it becomes something only believers can hear, or something only heard in Heaven (Which makes even less sense as these noises occur as the Lord descends to earth...)

Why would there be an announcement? Because he is openly proclaiming his return to "deal out retribution to those ... who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus ... [and] be glorified in His saints..." (2 Thess 1:8,10).

 

I agree... He that hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches... That the Satan/Devil has been trying to destroy since it was set up over 2000 years ago by Jesus Christ and his Apostles... God and History don't lie! Let God be true and every man a lier!

 

But Christ is not ruling, and although it is nice and rosy to have that optimistic feel-good emotionalism that all is well in the world today (when it isn't), and we can just shut our eyes to things like: the ebola crisis, the impending war in Ukraine, the atrocities of the Boko Haram in Nigeria, the advancement and evils of ISIS, the continual uprisings between Hamas and Israel, and the persecution of Christians world-wide, we still say "Christ reigns."
How foolish and naive.
Christ does not reign on this earth.
Satan is the god of this world. God has given the world over to him.
He is the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works disobedience. Those that are not born again are children of wrath, children of disobedience and the whole world lies in the hands of the Wicked One, not in the hands of Christ. as the Word of God teaches.

Yet, the Preterist shuts his eyes to reality and to the world around him and sings "Christ reigns; Christ reigns," when He does not.
He won't until he comes again and sets up His thousand year reign as He has described it in the Word of God, where he will justly reign with a rod of iron. This is not His Kingdom. This is Satan's Kingdom, and Satan offered it to him when Christ was tempted by Satan. It is Satan's world. It is his kingdom. Christ does not rule over it: Satan does.
If Christ ruled he would not stand for this amount of evil; he would not stand for any.

 

Given the expanded interest given this thread I thought it would be worthwhile to repost #4 for those folks who missed it:

The above Scripture clearly show that the return of Jesus Christ will not be secret or silent. How on earth could it be silent with planes falling out of the sky, trains without drivers, cars without drivers, ships without crews, and then all those glorified bodies coming out of the earth and others being changed as the Apostle Paul states. Folks I am telling you it will be one grand time, except for the folks who died in Adam!

None of the pre-trib dispensationalists were moved to respond to the above Scripture but great concern was expressed over Darby's accident!

I know that aome pre-trib dispensationalists are not big on the Apostle Peter, especially the hyper ones, but Peter only wrote as directed and Scripture does teach that Jesus Christ is reigning now:
1 Peter 3:22. Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Ain't GOD great!

 

Really?... God still rules this world as evil as it has become and it is still his he created it... Btw the way where is Satan?... He on a chain loosed for a little season?... You wouldn't be able to go to church and worship God if he was not! Why do you think the Pilgrims left England and came here? Persecution!

 

Does God rule in Saudi Arabia where you can't go to church? If He did rule it would be over ALL the world, not just America.
Satan is not bound. If he were bound much of the Bible would not make sense, much less the world.
What did Peter say:
[FONT=&quot]1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.[/FONT]
--Satan, right now, roams about this world seeking whom he may devour.
We are to resist him. He is not bound. If he were bound there would be no need to resist him.
--There are dozens of Scriptures like this one that you must deny by thinking that Satan is bound. He is not, and won't be until after Jesus comes again and the Millennial reign begins.

Satan is the god of this world, the prince of the power of the air. This is his world. Christ is not ruling over it. If He is, He is dong a terrible job of it.

 

They are extremely careful to split the the in John 5:28, 29!

JOHN 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

Scripture does not contradict itself though many contradict Scripture:

 

Even more amazing are those who miss the clearly laid out truth of the words of Jesus Christ in John 5:28, 29!

JOHN 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

They get all confused about the article "the" and next the noun "all". Then of course "shall hear" and "shall come forth" really causes them confusion!

 

The trumpet of God will be heard by His own, and we will all be change din twinkling of an eye...

And we need jesus to come back in order to have this World ruled by Him as God intended it to be before the fall!

 

No, if satan was chained and bound, there would be no Isis/Enbola/famines. and Christianity be the only "religion" on the earth!

 

Jesus is God, so he has authority over all Creation, but he will not fully exercise that until at His second coming!

 

[FONT=&quot]John 5:28[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--Now let’s consider this verse. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“for the hour is coming.” οτι ερχεται ωρα from the TR “for, is coming, hour…”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A few thoughts:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]First if you were an extreme KJVO perhaps “the hour” would mean either an exact hour of 60 minutes, 3600 seconds; or it would mean an exact time such as the eleventh hour, as 11:00:00 A.M. and not a tenth of a second more. For the event takes place in “a twinkling of an eye” (1Cor.15:52). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But you will note that the Greek “ora” translated here as hour, has no article in front of it. The Greek does have a definite article, but there is not one here. The translators inserted one, so the sentence would make grammatical sense. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It wouldn’t make sense to say: “for hour is coming.” They had to insert an article: “an” or “the,” to make the sentence grammatically proper. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore, other translations have a more correct translation when they say:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](WNT) Wonder not at this. For a time is coming when all who are in the graves will hear His voice and will come forth—[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--There is coming a time when all who are in the graves will hear his voice and will come forth. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Time” is a valid translation. The word “ora” is used 108 times in the NT. 89 times it is translated “hour,” and 11 times it is translated “time.” It is also translated “season” five times, and has six other miscellaneous translations. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Either way it has no article. It is not “the hour.” It is simply “hour,” “time,” or even “season.” It would be more proper to insert an indefinite article since the Greek doesn’t have one, but it does have a definite article. If the Holy Spirit wanted the definite article he would have put it there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“A time” is not necessarily specific to one hour or one minute, etc. It could be a space of time. All in the graves will surely here his voice at the appointed time. Now other scripture must be understood to give us the answer to understanding this one. This one scripture does not interpret the entire Bible. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Paul wrote to believers saying that, “We must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That will be after the rapture. That is for believers only. There is no general resurrection here. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--If this applied to the unsaved then salvation would be by works. But it is not. It is the judgment of believers only. It is also explained in 1Cor.3:11-15. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The judgment of the unsaved is the Great White Throne Judgment described in Rev.20:11-15. This is the second Resurrection. There is no one General Resurrection. John 5:28,29 does not contradict two resurrections, neither does it teach one resurrection if it is understood in its proper context. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The two resurrections are separated by a thousand years. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--During that thousand years Christ will reign on this earth, and there will be peace and harmony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--After the reign of Christ is finished, after that thousand years, there will be one final uprising of Satan, but that will be put down very quickly. Then the Great White Throne Judgment will take place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--John is not specifically told here who is seated on these thrones. But he was told in Luke 22:38-40. Jesus said the disciples would sit on thrones and judge Israel. They would do so in the Kingdom in their resurrected bodies as part of the Church. Therefore it is no great stretch to say that these thrones are for his bride as well. They will reign with him for a specific period of time—a thousand years. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--At the end of a thousand years the rest of the dead, that is the unsaved would face God as Judge. That would be the Second Resurrection. As noted, he just finished describing the First Resurrection. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Those in the first resurrection are blessed. They are the saved. They are the bride. They are the priests of God and Christ and shall reign with him. They are the ones that sit on the thrones. This is the rapture, that happens before the thousand years. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Note, unlike John 5:28 [/FONT]τα χιλια or [FONT=&quot]ta xila meaning “the thousand years” actually does have the definite article in front of it. And when those thousand years are ended Satan will be let loose. In the next verse it describes how in one final stroke, God will defeat him forever more. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There are two resurrections separated by a thousand years: one is called the rapture, the other is the Resurrection of the unjust. The Bible is very clear on this teaching. Other scripture like 1Thes.4:15ff and 2Thes.1:7ff have not even been touched on yet. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

The most conclusive and certainly the most significant passage in all of Scripture teaching a general resurrection is that of the Lord Jesus Christ, as recorded by the Apostle John:

John 5:28,29, KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This passage is very straightforward. It contains no figures of speech. The language is plain and straightforward in the truth it presents and it must be interpreted as such. The passage clearly and explicitely states the hour is coming. The subject, hour, is singular, not plural. The verb is singular, not plural. Therefore, Jesus Christ is explicitely teaching a general resurrection and judgment. However, the dispensationalist would have us believe that this passage teaches at least two different resurrections separated by a period of at least 1007 years; an interpretation which comes from those who supposedly insist on a strict literal interpretation of Scripture or taking Scripture at “face value”. The dispensationalist insistence that this passage teaches multiple resurrections is eisegesis at its worst. They are denying the truth of Scripture because it does not conform to their theology, a theology based on faulty interpretation of Scripture.

The word translated ‘hour’ is from the Greek word wra [hora, pronounced ho'-rah] and occurs 108 times in the New Testament. It is translated hour 89 times. The meaning of the word [from Thayer's Greek Lexicon] is as follows:

1 a certain definite time or season fixed by natural law and returning with the revolving year

1a of the seasons of the year, spring, summer, autumn, winter​

2 the daytime [bounded by the rising and setting of the sun], a day

3 a twelfth part of the day-time, an hour, [the twelve hours of the day are reckoned from the rising to the setting of the sun]

4 any definite time, point of time, moment.​

Two passages in the New Testament where the usage of the word ‘hora’, obviously refers to a brief period of time or a specific time are as follows:

Matthew 26:40, KJV
40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

Matthew 27:45, KJV
45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Jesus Christ in the passage from the Gospel of John [5:28, 29] teaches that in the same hour, this brief, specific period of time, all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, And shall come forth. Again, it is clear that this passage is explicitely teaching a general resurrection and judgment. The vast majority of Baptist Confessions throughout Baptist history also affirm a general resurrection and judgment. I understand full well that the 20th chapter of the Book of Revelation speaks of a first resurrection, which implies a second. Keep in mind, however, that the language of Revelation is apocalyptic or highly symbolic, while the language in the passage from the Gospel of John is not, indicating that a strict literal understanding of the passage from John is necessary. However, I do believe in two resurrections, the first resurrection was unquestionably that of Jesus Christ. In Revelation 1:4, 5 [KJV] we read:

John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

The Apostle Paul in his sermon before King Agrippa while imprisoned at Caesaera declared:

Acts 26:22,23, KJV
22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

We see from the above Scripture that, in prophecy and in history, Jesus Christ was the first and only one to rise from the dead to die no more. Those who have part in the first resurrection, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, are those who have undergone spiritual resurrection [John 5:25; Ephesians 2:1-7], who are born again [John 3:3], who have been justified through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. The second resurrection will include everyone, saved and lost, at the return of Jesus Christ and the end of the age.

The Apostle Peter in his second epistle to the Church sheds additional light on the events surrounding the return of Christ:[]

2 Peter 3:10-13, KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

In this passage of Scripture, Peter is writing to Christians. What Peter describes must be interpreted as a single event in time. Readers of this passage are not told to look for the disappearance of the Church, to look again seven years later for the return of Christ, and to look again 1000 years later for the final defeat of Satan and the creation of a new heavens and earth; but they are told to look for day of the Lord or the day of God which will come as a thief in the night and in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The phrase come as a thief in the night should be understood as follows:

A thief comes unexpectedly, not when the householder is expecting him.

Similarly the Lord indicated that His return would be unexpected, teaching: Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh [Matthew 24:44].​

Note also that the phrase come as a thief in the night is generally understood, by all viewpoints, as the return of Christ in which, as the Apostle Paul wrote, the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air [1 Thessalonians 4:16,17].

There are some who attempt to differentiate between the day of the Lord and the day of God. Note, however, that on the day of the Lord the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Note also that on the the day of God the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. It is obvious that the day of the Lord and the day of God are the same especially since Scripture tells us: Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Continued!