The Semi-Pelagian Narrower Catechism

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Kiffen, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. Kiffen

    Kiffen
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    Found this at a Lutheran Website http://paulmccain.worldmagblog.com/paulmccain/archives/012731.html

    Did not see no Copyright listed so here is the full text. Very funny! [​IMG]


    The Semi-Pelagian Narrower Catechism

    1. Q: What is the chief end of each individual Christian?
    A: Each individual Christian's chief end is to get saved. This is the first and great commandment.

    2. Q: And what is the second great commandment?
    A: The second, which is like unto it, is to get as many others saved as he can.

    3. Q: What one work is required of thee for thy salvation?
    A: It is required of me for my salvation that I make a Decision for Christ, which meaneth to accept Him into my heart to be my personal lord'n'saviour

    4. Q: At what time must thou perform this work?
    A: I must perform this work at such time as I have reached the Age of Accountability.

    5. Q: At what time wilt thou have reached this Age?
    A: That is a trick question. In order to determine this time, my mind must needs be sharper than any two-edged sword, able to pierce even to the division of bone and marrow; for, alas, the Age of Accountability is different for each individual, and is thus unknowable.

    6. Q: By what means is a Decision for Christ made?
    A: A Decision for Christ is made, not according to His own purpose and grace which was given to me in Christ Jesus before the world began, but according to the exercise of my own Free Will in saying the Sinner's Prayer in my own words.

    7. Q: If it be true then that man is responsible for this Decision, how then can God be sovereign?
    A: He cannot be. God sovereignly chose not to be sovereign, and is therefore dependent upon me to come to Him for salvation. He standeth outside the door of my heart, forlornly knocking, until such time as I Decide to let Him in.

    8. Q: How then can we make such a Decision, seeing that the Scripture saith, we are dead in our trespasses and sins?
    A: By this the Scripture meaneth, not that we are dead, but only that we are sick or injured in them.

    9. Q: What is the assurance of thy salvation?
    A: The assurance of thy salvation is, that I know the date on which I prayed the Sinner's Prayer, and have duly written this date on an official Decision card.

    10. Q: What is thy story? What is thy song?
    A: Praising my Savior all the day long.

    11. Q: You ask me how I know he lives?
    A: He lives within my heart.

    12. Q: And what else hast thou got in thine heart?
    A: I've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart.

    13. Q: Where??
    A: Down in my heart!

    14. Q: Where???
    A: Down in my heart!!

    15. Q: What witness aid hath been given us as a technique by which we may win souls?
    A: The tract known commonly as the Four Spiritual Laws, is the chief aid whereby we may win souls.

    16. Q: What doth this tract principally teach?
    A: The Four Spiritual Laws principally teach, that God's entire plan for history and the universe centereth on me, and that I am powerful enough to thwart His divine purpose if I refuse to let Him pursue His Wonderful Plan for my life.

    17. Q: What supplementary technique is given by which we may win souls?
    A: The technique of giving our own Personal Testimony, in the which we must always be ready to give an answer concerning the years we spent in vanity and pride, and the wretched vices in which we wallowed all our lives until
    the day we got saved.

    18. Q: I'm so happy, what's the reason why?
    A: Jesus took my burden all away!

    19. Q: What are the means given whereby we may save large crowds of souls in a spectacular manner?
    A: Such a spectacle is accomplished by means of well-publicized Crusades and Revivals which (in order that none may be loath to attend) are best conducted anywhere else but in a Church.

    20. Q: Am I a soldier of the Cross?
    A: I am a soldier of the Cross if I join Campus Crusade, Boys' Brigade, the Salvation Army, or the Wheaton Crusaders; of if I put on the helmet of Dispensationalism, the breastplate of Pietism, the shield of Tribulationism, and the sword of Zionism, having my feet shod with the gospel of Arminianism.

    21. Q: Who is your boss?
    A: My boss is a Jewish carpenter.

    22. Q: Hath God predestined vessels of wrath to Hell?
    A: God hath never performed such an omnipotent act, for any such thing would not reflect His primary attribute, which is Niceness.

    23. Q: What is sanctification?
    A: Sanctification is the work of my free Will, whereby I am renewed by having my Daily Quiet Time.

    24. Q: What rule hath God for our direction in prayer?
    A: The rule that we must bow our hands, close our heads, and fold our eyes.

    25. Q: What doth the Lord's Prayer teach us?
    A: The Lord's Prayer teacheth us that we must never memorize a prayer, or use one that hath been written down.

    26. Q: What's the book for thee?
    A: The B-I-B-L-E.

    27. Q: Which are among the first books which a Christian should read to his soul's health?
    A: Among the first books which a Christian should read are the books of Daniel and Revelation, and The Late Great Planet Earth.

    28. Q: Who is on the Lord's side?
    A: He who doth support whatsoever is done by the nation of Israel, and who doth renounce the world, the flesh, and the Catholic Church.

    29. Q: What are the seven deadly sins?
    A: The seven deadly sins are smoking, drinking, dancing, card-playing, movie-going, baptizing babies, and having any creed but Christ.

    30. Q: What is a sacrament?
    A: A sacrament is an insidious invention devised by the Catholic Church whereby men are drawn into idolatry.

    31. Q: What is the Lord's Supper?
    A: The Lord's Supper is a dispensing of saltines and grape juice, in the which we remember Christ's command to pretend that they are His body and blood.

    32. Q: What is baptism?
    A: Baptism is the act whereby, by the performance of something that seems quite silly in front of everyone, I prove that I really, really mean it.

    33. Q: What is the Church?
    A: The Church is the tiny minority of individuals living at this time who have Jesus in their hearts, and who come together once a week for a sermon, fellowship and donuts.

    34. Q: What is the office of the keys?
    A: The office of the keys is that office held by the custodian.

    35. Q: What meaneth "The Priesthood Of All Believers"?
    A: The Priesthood Of All Believers meaneth that there exists no authority in the Church, as that falsely thought to be held by elders, presbyters, deacons, and bishops, but that each individual Christian acts as his own authority in all matters pertaining to the faith.

    36. Q: Who is the Holy Spirit?
    A: The Holy Spirit is a gentleman Who would never barge in.

    37. Q: How long hath the Holy Spirit been at work?
    A: The Holy Spirit hath been at work for more than a century: expressly, since the nineteenth-century Revitalization brought about by traveling Evangelists carrying tents across America.

    38. Q: When will be the "Last Days" of which the Bible speaketh?
    A: The "Last Days" are these days in which we are now living, in which the Antichrist, the Beast, and the Thief in the Night shall most certainly appear.

    39. Q: What is the name of the event by which Christians will escape these dreadful entities?
    A: The event commonly known as the Rapture, in the which it is our Blessed Hope that all cars driven by Christians will suddenly have no drivers.

    40. Q: When is Jesus coming again?
    A: Maybe morning, maybe noon, maybe evening, and maybe soon.

    41. Q: When the roll, roll, roll, is called up yonder, where will you be?
    A: There.

    42. Q: Hallelu, hallelu, hallelu, hallelujah!
    A: Praise ye the Lord!

    43. Q: Praise ye the Lord!
    A: Hallelujah!

    44. Q: Where will we meet again?
    A: Here, there, or in the air.

    45. Q: Can I hear an Ay-men?
    A: Ay-men.
     
  2. Ben Elohim

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    CALVINIST JUDGMENT DAY

    SCENE: Judgment Day at the Throne of God. The souls of history are lined up to stand before God and give an account of their life.

    GOD: Step forward, stand before Me the Most Holy God, state your name and give your account.

    Man: My name is Duncan Angus Campbell and I was born in the highlands of Scotland in 1947 and emigrated with my loving parents to the great land of America when I was just a wee lad. And I bow my knee before you Sovereign Lord Almighty.

    GOD: Stand up and give your account.

    Duncan: I was a faithful husband of one, loving father of three.

    GOD: Mmmmm hmmm.....

    Duncan: And oh yes, I was faithful to You and your Son.

    GOD: Well, I will be the judge of that Duncan. What about your sin?

    Duncan: Ah, er... eh, yes, I did use your name in vain a few times and told some lies. But, I repented of my sins and turned from my ways.

    GOD: And?

    Duncan: Well, I er, umm.... yes, I did cheat on my Income Tax several times during the 80's. But I repented of my sins and turned from my ways.

    GOD: Well done good and faithful servant! Go away to your eternal inheritance and the joy of heaven.

    GOD: Next! Step forward, stand before Me the Most Holy God, state your name and give your account.

    Man: My name is John Paul Van Dyke. I was born of Dutch ancestry in Lower Manhatten in the great land of the United States of America in 1948 and I bow my knee before you Most Merciful and Gracious God.

    GOD: Give your account.

    John: I was a faithful husband of one and loving father of three.

    GOD: Mmmmm hmmmmm.

    John: Yes, and I was faithful to you and your Son.

    GOD: I will be the judge of that John. And your sin?

    John: Oh yes. Ummm well, let's see. I told some lies and used your name in vain several times. But I repented and turned from my ways.

    GOD: And?

    John: Well, I accepted bribes as a civil servant back in the 80's. But I repented and turned from my ways.

    GOD: Go away from Me you evildoer! Be cast into the eternal torment of the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

    John: Whoaa. What? Wait a minute here. Was it the bribes?

    GOD: No.

    John: Using your name in vain? Was it the swearing which is sending me to eternal perdition?

    GOD: No, no.

    John: Just wait a minute here. Why is Duncan going to heaven and I am going to hell? I must tell you that I am quite bewildered over this unfortunate turn of events.

    GOD: Duncan repented of his sins.

    John: Yeah... but so did I.

    GOD: Because Duncan was 'elect' and you are not.

    John: Please wait Most Holy God. Can you give me a morsel of your eternity?

    GOD: Very well. Just be reminded this is the Day of the Lord and a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day.

    John: What should I have done in my life to be saved?

    GOD: There is nothing you could have done. You were not elected to be saved.

    John: Then what is the purpose of giving an account of our life?

    GOD: It's a rewards quantity / torment quality issue.

    John: So.... Duncan suffers for his evil deeds in heaven but I suffer for mine in hell?

    GOD: No, no, John.

    John: Frankly, Most Holy and Gracious God, I am rather confused on the matter.

    GOD: Very well John. Duncan went away to eternal glory and lost out on some rewards he might have had.

    John: And me?

    GOD: You, on the other hand (my left one), go away to eternal torment and are tormented according to the sins you committed. Don't worry too much. It looks like a rather low burning flame for you.

    John: But why am I going to hell and Duncan is going to heaven?

    GOD: As I said before. Duncan was elect. You weren't.

    John: Why?

    GOD: For the purpose of my good pleasure and will!

    John: But what could I have done? How could I have been elected?

    GOD: John, as I, Most Holy and Mighty God hath sayeth before, there is absolutely nothing thou couldst have done to be elected. Indeed, there is nothing Duncan could have done to avoid election and entering into eternal glory.

    John: I just don't get it. Please explain Most Holy God.

    GOD: John, before the creation of the world, I elected Duncan and several others to be saved and I predestined them to that end for my good pleasure. There is nothing they could have done about it.

    John: And?

    GOD: That's it John. You were not elected, therefore, you are reprobate and there is nothing you could have done about it. So don't be too hard on yourself.

    John: Most Holy, Gracious, Merciful and Righteous God, allow me try to understand what is going on here. Before you created the world, did you elect Duncan for salvation and ignored me for salvation which would mean I would have to go to the damnation of hell by default? OR did you intentionally elect Duncan for salvation and intentionally elect me for damnation?

    GOD: Well John, I myself personally don't see the difference between those two viewpoints. However, there are those here who ascribe to supralapsarianism, infralapsarianism or sublapsarianism and the issue is still under investigation. This is an oft debated issue and subject is too lengthy to discuss because we do not have time here in eternity.

    John: Was Jesus a supralapsarian, infralapsarian or sublapsarian?

    God: Do not test my patience John!

    John: Okay, let's see if I understand yet. Duncan was a sinner; I am a sinner. Duncan sinned; I sinned. But I, unlike Duncan, go away to eternal torment.

    GOD: You sinned; Duncan sinned. But My Son died for Duncan's sins.

    John: And mine?

    GOD: My Son's atonement was a "particular redemption."

    John: Particular?

    God: Yes, limited to atone for the sins of the elect.

    John: Well then, what on earth could I have done? I did not realize I was not elected.

    GOD: As, I most Holy, Powerful and Almighty Sovereign God hath sayeth beforehand, there is nothing you could have done. If I had elected you before creation and predestined you to be born again so that you could believe with a saving faith, you would have been saved and known that I had elected you to believe and be saved so that you would know this is in fact what I did. However, that not being the case.....

    John: But I DID believe in you Most Holy, Merciful, Compassionate, Longsuffering, Kind and Loving Creator.

    God: Yes, I am quite aware of that John. However, you unfortunately did not possess "saving faith."

    John: And what kind of faith is that?

    GOD: That's the kind the elect had.

    John: And how could I have believed with saving faith?

    GOD: You couldn't. You were not elected.

    John: So what of my life, my trials, my devotion, my prayers? Why was I even born.?

    GOD: That's a complex issue.

    John: My God, why have you forsaken me? What could I have done?

    GOD: Nothing. There is nothing you could have done. Technically, its your fault you are going to hell.

    John: Why?

    GOD: Because you are a sinner and you sinned.

    John: And there was nothing done to take care of my predicament?

    GOD: For you, No.

    John: And having my sins washed away was not ever a real possiblity because you did not preordain Christ to die for me as you did for Duncan.

    GOD: That's right John.

    John: So then this is somewhat of a farce here today because you had this already decided before anything was even created.

    God: John, don't make me turn up the temperature for you.

    John: You knit me together in my mother's womb knowing that you would be sending me to everlasting torment here today?

    GOD: Well yes John.

    John: So what you are saying is that you created a person who was destined to your everlasting hellfire and torment and there was nothing done to save me from that destiny?

    GOD: Now you understand.

    Take him to the pit.

    [ February 23, 2005, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Ben Elohim ]
     
  3. johnp.

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    Ben.

    I take it you don't buy it Ben.

    RO 9:19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, `Why did you make me like this?' " 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

    johnp.
     
  4. Ben Elohim

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    I take it you don't buy it Ben.

    RO 9:19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, `Why did you make me like this?' " 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

    johnp.
    </font>[/QUOTE]No I do not buy eisegetical readings of Romans 9. Would you like to discuss this passage? If so, please start a thread on it and I would be happy to discuss it with you.

    Do you insist that everyone's ultimate fate on Judgment Day was fixed before anything was ever created and no one's destiny could have ever been changed, whether to heaven, or to hellfire?

    [ February 23, 2005, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Ben Elohim ]
     
  5. Doubting Thomas

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    Ben, that was classic! Nice work. [​IMG]
     
  6. johnp.

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    Ben.

    I'm never far from Romans nine. It's bound to crop up here. :cool:

    Well I suppose you could say 'insist' but I would rather say 'contend'. That is what I contend for.
    I read your post and agreed with most of it! :cool:

    Essentially God creates people and sends them to hell and everything in between was the work of God. Blunt and to the point.

    johnp.
     
  7. Ben Elohim

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    I'm never far from Romans nine. It's bound to crop up here. :cool:

    Well I suppose you could say 'insist' but I would rather say 'contend'. That is what I contend for.
    I read your post and agreed with most of it! :cool:

    Essentially God creates people and sends them to hell and everything in between was the work of God. Blunt and to the point.

    johnp.
    </font>[/QUOTE]And the point of Judgment Day is?
     
  8. johnp.

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    Hello Ben.
    The point of Judgement Day is the revealing of God's glory.
    Adam's sin has not yet run it's course as all other sins have not. It is the end where the totting up comes in. It is not until the end can we be judged according to what we have done and the consequences we have caused.
    Once the results are in then God will show each sinner His sins and they will recognise them as their own.
    If a person dies before Judgement Day and that person was not chosen in Him before the creation of the world then he is held in the condition, albeit apart from his body, that he will be in forever. ...and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 2 Peter 2:9.
    The Christian will be shown what he has missed by the grace of God and will rejoice that much better for knowing what they he has missed. :cool:
    Those who find themselves in the former camp will be there because they served the Lord's will and the Christians will be there because they served the Lord's will.
    Essentially God creates people and sends them to hell and everything in between was the work of God. Blunt and to the point.
    Judgement Day is a public declaration of man's sin and the beginning of the party for many.

    Whatcha think?

    johnp.
     
  9. Ben Elohim

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    So then, Judgment Day is for the express purpose of "showing people" that God had pre-determined their fate for this Day before any of them existed, correct?
     
  10. johnp.

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    Ben.

    The point of Judgement Day is the revealing of God's glory so I said.
    Whilst not endorsing the skit below entirely I go with the gist of it.

    John: My God, why have you forsaken me? What could I have done?

    GOD: Nothing. There is nothing you could have done. Technically, its your fault you are going to hell.

    John: Why?

    GOD: Because you are a sinner and you sinned.

    John: And there was nothing done to take care of my predicament?

    GOD: For you, No.

    John: And having my sins washed away was not ever a real possiblity because you did not preordain Christ to die for me as you did for Duncan.

    GOD: That's right John.

    John: So then this is somewhat of a farce here today because you had this already decided before anything was even created.

    God: John, don't make me turn up the temperature for you.

    John: You knit me together in my mother's womb knowing that you would be sending me to everlasting torment here today?

    GOD: Well yes John.

    John: So what you are saying is that you created a person who was destined to your everlasting hellfire and torment and there was nothing done to save me from that destiny?

    GOD: Now you understand.

    Take him to the pit.

    johnp.
     
  11. Ben Elohim

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    And the Bible indicates the purpose of Judgment Day is what?
     
  12. johnp.

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    The point of Judgement Day is the revealing of God's glory so I said.

    johnp.
     
  13. Ben Elohim

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    The point of Judgement Day is the revealing of God's glory so I said.

    johnp.
    </font>[/QUOTE]So what is God judging exactly according to Scripture? And why is God doing this, according to Scripture?
     
  14. johnp.

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    So what is God judging exactly according to Scripture?
    Men.
    And why is God doing this, according to Scripture?
    Because He is Judge. :cool:

    johnp.
     
  15. Ben Elohim

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    And (1) what is God judging and (2) what is his purpose for doing this judging. What do the Scriptures say?
     
  16. johnp.

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    And angels?
    To reveal His glory by way of His wrath I've told you.

    johnp.
     
  17. Ben Elohim

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    Why don't you provide some Scripture which tells us what God will be judging on the Day and for what purpose he will be judging?
     
  18. johnp.

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    Why don't you ask me questions properly? Why do you act like some great detective trying to weddle a confession out of a suspect. I will tell you what you want to know just ask me the question properly so that I understand and reply to what you want to know.
    I am not ashamed of my beliefs. Your traps are of no concern to me. My Lord keeps my path straight.

    ...and for what purpose he will be judging?
    He only has one purpose and that is to reveal His glory. What do you want me to say? How about this, God, in His Sovereign will, He deemed it acceptable that He produce people fit for Hell so that He could strut His stuff regarding His wrath and His mercy! That is the purpose of Judgement Day.

    Some ammunition for you?

    You must put the question properly. I shall not do it for you. Ask the right question and you will get the answer you are looking for I assure you.
    You wants stones to stone me with I have plenty.

    johnp.
     
  19. Ben Elohim

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    I see, you want to be stubbornly disingenuous and mischievous? Is that what you mean?

    And provide no Scriptural support for your assertions?
     
  20. johnp.

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    No I want to speak the word of God in truth. What's wrong with that?
    Is my promise to answer your questions with the truth and with integrity not good enough or are you being bitchy because I hurt your feelings?

    What assertions are you talking about?

    johnp.
     

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