The serpent

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JMSR, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. JMSR

    JMSR
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    Reading through Genesis a little I wondered something. First the serpent talks to Eve. So we have a talking serpent. When he was cursed by God he was made to crawl on his belly and eat dust for the rest of his life. Was he something else before? I know it's trivial but if you believe the Bible is 100% true than some of the details are quite thought provoking.
     
  2. Carico

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    He had to be different before he was cursed to crawl on his belly. But scripture doesn't clarify what that was. But since evolutionists call humans apes, then they believe in billions of talking apes. ;) So the secular world makes the events in the bible look like ordinary everyday events. :thumbs:
     
  3. Johnv

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    There's a difference between being 100% true and 100% fact (uh oh, here comes the can of worms). I'm not referring to a creation/evlution argument or anything. I'm referring to being careful not to read too much into a biblical narrative. One should read only what is there. Anything else is speculative. What I'm referring to is the reference to the serpent being made to crawl on his belly and eat dust for the rest of his life. Like Carico said, scripture doesn't clarify what that was. So it's not important.

    To answer the question "Was he something else before?", no, he was a serpent before. All the narrative says is that crawling on the ground became his curse. That doesn't mean he didn't crawl on the ground before, it just means that the act of crawling on the ground became his curse.

    Same with eating dust. It doesn't matter what the serpent ate before. He could have eaten dust before for all we know. It's not important. What is important is that we understand that the eating of dust becomes a curse for the serpent.

    There's also something interesting about the narrative. It appears Eve knew the serpent beforehand. There's no mention of Eve having been startled or surprised by the appearance of the serpent. Perhaps Eve had a relationship with the serpent like any other animal. Who knows? It's sheer speculation. We should be concerned with what the narrative literally says. Anything else is sheer speculation. Interesting speculation to be sure, but not of importance. If it were important, scripture would have included it.
     
  4. Marcia

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    The Bible doesn't tell us this. There are also different views on whether Satan took the form of the serpent or actually inhabited (possessed) a serpent.

    I wrote a paper for my OT class in seminary on the use of serpents in the Pentateuch and in Egypt; it was really fascinating. "Eating dust" is a reference to defeat. Here is part of it:
    The above is on page 3. But the article starts here:
    http://christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_Serpents1.html
     
    #4 Marcia, Oct 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2009
  5. Johnv

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    You and I must have written the same paper. :wavey: I wrote a paper during my bachelor's program on that same topic. Yes, I don't know why I didn't mention that earlier. References to being forced into eating the dust of the ground was an important symbol of defeat. This would have been known to the Hebrews in the days when the Genesis was told.

    Good point also on whether Satan took the form of the serpent or possessed a serpent. Since Eve appears to have known the serpent prior, I'd lean towards Satan inhabiting the serpent in question.
     
  6. Marcia

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    Interesting topic, isn't it? Thanks for the comments, Johnv.
     
  7. JMSR

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    It appears to me that Gen 3:1 refers to the very serpent that spoke to Eve as a beast of the field that God had made.
     
  8. Johnv

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    Yes, that's another reason I lean toward Satan having come into an existing animal that Eve already know. Jsut my $.02.
    Yes, this has been a fun topic. I'm surprised the zealots haven't gotten here yet to ruin the discussion. :eek:
     
  9. Shortandy

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    I recently had a 4 hour discussion with an older couple in my church. They listen to a guy named Arnold Murray. He teaches this serpant-seed doctrine.

    Have any of you guys heard of this? It is a wild theory to say the least.
     
  10. Johnv

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    To put it mildly, Serpent-Seed doctrine is NOT consistent with scripture. It's rather contradictory, actually.

    Serpent-Seed doctrine teaches that the sin of Eve was sexual contact with the serpent, and that Cain was the son of Eve and the serpent (Satan). By that thinking, Cain’s descendants would be decendents of Satan.

    Serpent-Seed belief is a common beliefs in white supremacist and anti-Semitic religious groups.

    Oh, and Arnold Murray is, imo, a false prophet, but that's a different topic.
     
  11. Allan

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    Arnold Murry is an absolute FALSE teacher.
    He is teachings and church are one of the faster growing cults in the US.
    He doesn't believe in 'organized' religion and his 'church' only comes together about once or twice a year for a picnic gathering and preaching weekend.

    The serpent-seed doctrine is absolute false.
    Quick summery:
    It states that the forbidden fruit that taken was the se*ual relationship that Eve had with Satan, of which 'Cain' was the result. And since Adam partook as well, well.. you get the idea. (that part is not usaully talked about though, it messes up some of them who hold to the idea)

    Secondly, this veiw holds that the Jews came 'from' Cain and that is why Jesus states 'they are of their father the devil', and that is why the Jews Killed Jesus as well.
     
  12. Shortandy

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    I totally agree about Murray. I had never heard of this theory until a few weeks ago. I just wanted to see if I was alone but that doesn't appear to be the case.
     
  13. Soulman

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    I wonder if the serpent was posessed, why God punished the animal. Was the serpent responsible some how?
     
  14. blackbird

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    The serpant had his beginning in the book of Genesis---he will have his ending in the book of Revelation---that serpant, no doubt is "Bad Boy" Lucifer
     
  15. Soulman

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    Didn't all animals have their beginning in Genesis? Although , You must be right. Why else would the species be cursed?
     
  16. Amy.G

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    It's not the animal that God cursed. He cursed Satan. The phrase "crawl on your belly" means that God cursed Satan to be in submission to Him (under His feet).
     
  17. Johnv

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    There's nothing in the Genesis narraive that suggests a whole species, genus, or other taxonomic classification was cursed.
    Very good observation. :thumbs:
    It's more than that. The act of forcing the serpent to crawl on its belly and therefore eating dust of the ground was a cultural reference to being defeated. The Torah-era Jews would have understood the symbolic reference. Us today, not as much.
     
    #17 Johnv, Nov 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2009
  18. Amy.G

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    Yes, I agree.
     
  19. Benjamin

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    You would never know that from the reaction I got from the group I had in the back of my truck that were helping to move cabinets from my shop to the church; when I stopped on the desert road to pick up a harmless snake they saw and pretended I was putting it in the back with them.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Johnv

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    Hahah!!! Well, my son has a rosey boa, which are quite harmless, and I won't even begin to tell you how much "fun" I've had at other peoples' expense. :thumbs:
     

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