The Seven Heads

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    ".....a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads seven diadems....."

    What, as much as is possible in your own words, do you believe those seven heads represent?
     
  2. kyredneck

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    Also, what position or view of the book would you classify yourself (not neccessarily only one):

    Historicist - sees in Revelation a broad view of history
    Preterist - Revelation mostly refers to the events of the apostolic era (first century)
    Futurist - Revelation describes future events
    Idealist, or Symbolic - holds that Revelation is purely symbolic,
    (taken from Wiki)

    (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I believe amills would fall into the last category)
     
    #2 kyredneck, Mar 19, 2010
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  3. Tom Bryant

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    You realize that highlighted, underlined statement means most of us won't post a word... :tongue3: We futurists can only quote what LaHaye and Lindsay have written... :tongue3:

    I am mainly a futurist. (side note: I think the churches in Rev 2-3 were real historical churches in John's time and not a picture of the progression or regression of the church age) I think the great red dragon represents Satan and his control of a future conglomeration of national or idealogical powers. But I have no idea what those real things will be. While i am pre-mill and pre-trib, I also like your statement about being a pan-millenialist. God will make sure it pans out in the end.
     
    #3 Tom Bryant, Mar 19, 2010
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  4. kyredneck

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    Well, I hope not. Like you in your last thread, my intent was/is to keep the replies brief and concise, and avoid any long treatises on the virtues of a particular view. I used to be a Hal Lindsay fan when he first came on the scene with 'The Late Great Planet Earth', and 'There's A New World Coming', and 'Satan Is Alive And Well On Planet Earth' (I think that's all I read of him). And, if memory serves me right, someone correct me if I'm wrong (it's been 38 yrs, I no longer have his books), even he had the seven heads correctly pegged in 'The Late Great Planet Earth'. Four of the heads are synonymous with the beasts of Daniel. I expected, and I could be wrong, that the interpretation of the seven heads would be 'common ground' that all views share. I have to go, duty calls again, I've more to say; note the passages below; Rev was written during the sixth head.

    3.....a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads seven diadems..... Rev 12

    1....... a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns, and seven heads, and on his horns ten diadems......Rev 13

    3.....a scarlet-colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    9 Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth:
    10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. Rev 17
     
  5. pinoybaptist

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    Bro, I am mainly Preterist with a mix of futurist.
    I believe that historically, the context is in the time of the Emperor Domitian and when Emperor worship had started to really put a pressure on Christians.
    Mind you, this wasn't a religious thing more than a political one.
    Other events, particularly the Great White Throne judgment is futurist.
    I'm also amillenialist, but I think the symbolism can be interpreted by knowing the context of the times.
    I believe the Revelation was not written to be mysterious.
    It was written to a particular audience who knew exactly what the symbols and the numbers mean.
     
  6. webdog

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    The seven heads are the seven continents. It is speaking of the entire world, and the totality of all nations in unison (10 horns) coming together against Christ.
     
  7. Amy.G

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    Yes, I believe that was my 10th grade accounting teacher.


    :smilewinkgrin:
     
  8. Jerome

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    William Mounce, The Book of Revelation, quoting amillennialist Abraham Kuyper's The Revelation of St. John:
    Sounds like futurist:thumbs:
     
  9. kyredneck

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    Hello Pinoy, thanks for commenting.

    When it comes to Rev, I am a conglomeration of all four views, I find merit in all of them. But mostly I am preterist/amill. I believe the book was written during the reign of Nero.

    Thank you. I guess I knew that already, you just articulated it for me.

    Agree.

    I think the symbolism can be interpreted by keeping with the continuity of how those symbols are used throughout scripture. The message of the book is contained in signs and symbols and picture stories that are at all times connected to the rest of scripture, old and new. Revelation is the capstone of the bible; it’s a treasure trove of scriptural truths and there is great reward in delving into it.

    Heheh, I believe the Lord intended it to be mysterious to keep us busy digging into it and find joy in doing so. I do believe the recipients of the original letters were more attuned to the immediate message contained therein than we are today.

    Mostly agree.
     
  10. kyredneck

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    Hello webdog, thanks for commenting.

    I respectfully disagree that the seven heads represent the seven continents because of the meaning of them given in 17:9,10. But there is a totality involved in all political powers that's ever been on earth that has had 'enmity with the woman and her seed'. I'm going to jump ahead and state what I believe (and many others also, amills included) the seven heads to represent. They are the Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, Roman, and Holy Roman empires. The book was written during the sixth head, the Roman empire.
     
  11. kyredneck

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    Hello Amy, thanks for being cute. Humor is a good thing. :)

    That 'ol dragon has his kin everywhere. I believe I had his brother for an immediate supervisor for years. :)
     
  12. kyredneck

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    Hello Jerome. Thanks for the quote.

    Actually, it was my intent to find some 'common ground' in Rev that all views hold; I think I may have wrongly chose the seven heads, although I do know of this being common ground with some from all views. Needless to say I disagree with Kuyper's statement,...”the events which form the prophetic content of the Apocalypse shall only come to pass, when the end of the World is at hand." More on that later, I hope :)
     
  13. kyredneck

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    Duty has constraints on my time right now. If I'm slow in responding please understand.
     
  14. kyredneck

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    A conservative, premillennial, or futurist, interpretation of the seven heads from 'The Apocalypse', by Joseph A. Seiss:

    When I was still premil many years ago, there was a saying in the circle I was in; “You haven't really read a commentary on Revelation until you've read Seiss.” So, of course, I bought the book, and sure enough, he is very sound in his applying of scriptural symbolism to interpret much of the Apocalypse, and one can't help but to learn much in that area by reading him. Although I'm no longer premill there's still much that I agree with him on, and I reference his book quite often.

    “I have read with much care more than fifty book on The Revelation. Of these, but two have commended themselves to my judgment as Biblical, sound and spiritual. Of these two, the best is Seiss.” —C.I. Scofield, author, Scofield Reference Bible

    “An exhaustive, pre-millennial exposition by a well known Lutheran writer of the past century.”—Cyril J Barber, The Minister's Library
     
    #14 kyredneck, Mar 21, 2010
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  15. kyredneck

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    A conservative, historical interpretation of the seven heads from 'A Brief Commentary On Revelation', by Edward H. Overby, A.B., B.D., D.D., then Professor at Lexington Baptist College (a sound conservative school which is now defunct, and sadly missed by many). Excerpts:

    Excerpts from Brother Overbey's book, 'A Brief Commentary On Daniel':

     
    #15 kyredneck, Mar 21, 2010
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  16. kyredneck

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    34 Thou [Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon] sawest till that a stone [the Church] was cut out without hands, which smote the image [Rome] upon its feet that were of iron and clay, and brake [through the Christianized Germanic tribes] them in pieces [two feet, ten toes, Eastern and Western Holy Roman empires].
    35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and gold, broken in pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing-floors; and the wind carried them away, so that no place was found for them: and the stone [the Church] that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
    39 And after thee [Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon] shall arise another kingdom [Medo-Persian] inferior to thee ; and another third kingdom [Greece] of brass , which shall bear rule over all the earth.
    40 And the fourth kingdom [Rome] shall be strong as iron , forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things; and as iron that crusheth all these, shall it break in pieces and crush.
    44 And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom [the Church] which shall never be destroyed, nor shall the sovereignty thereof be left to another people; but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
    45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that a stone [the Church] was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake [through those Christianized Germanic tribes] in pieces [the Roman empire into ten horns] the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. Dan 2
     
    #16 kyredneck, Mar 21, 2010
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  17. kyredneck

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    Ten Trivia :)

    The 10th man from Adam in the genealogy in Genesis is Noah, the father of the nations and of every gentile on earth came from his three sons.

    The 10th chapter of Genesis is the first mention of the origins of the nations (gentiles) through the generations of the sons of Noah.

    The 10th chapter of Acts is where the gospel is first preached to the gentiles (after a thorough persuasion of Peter by the Spirit), and from which Peter was led to proclaim, “Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation (gentiles) he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness is acceptable to him”.

    Peter was accompanied by 10 men (Acts 11) when he was sent to the gentile Cornelius.

    The thousand year ( 10 x 10 x10 ) reign of Christ when He rules the nations (gentiles) with a rod of iron.

    David, as a type of Christ, had 10 wives.

    Solomon, as a type of Christ, had 700 wives and 300 concubines (10 x 10 x 10 ).

    The 10 Germanic (Teutonic) tribes of the Franks, Angles, Saxons, Vandals, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Alamanni, Burgundians, Jutes, and Lombards (ancestors of white folk and descendants of Japheth, [see Noah's prophecy, Gen 9:27] through Gomer) broke up the Roman Empire, the 6th head of the beast in Revelations, to become the 7th head with 10 horns; also the same 10 horned beast of Daniel 7 with even more details provided in Daniel 2 by the stone striking the feet of the image and breaking it to pieces; i.e. two feet, ten toes representing the division into the Eastern and Western Roman Empires.

    The metric system which is a decimal (base 10) system, was developed by the French (the Germanic tribe Franks), and is commonly referred to as the International System of Units (SI).
     
    #17 kyredneck, Mar 22, 2010
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  18. olegig

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    Most all commentaries I have read compare the stone to Christ Himself.
    I do grant some see Peter as the stone with a church built upon Peter; but I don't agree with them.
    I have never seen a commentary compare the stone to the Church but I suppose it could be so because Christ does work through the Church to spread the gospel which will overcome the things of the world.

    But it seems if the Church is the stone of Dan, then at least somewhere Paul would have referred to the Church, the Body, as the stone.

    Ephesians 2:20 (King James Version)
    20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


    Do those particular commentators give scriptural reference for their belief the stone represents the Church?
    I would enjoy checking their feelings against scripture for myself.
     
  19. kyredneck

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    Well, of course the stone is Christ just as the Church is his body........ :)

    Post #16 was my own feeble attempt to paraphrase/amplify those verses, not from a commentary.
     
    #19 kyredneck, Mar 22, 2010
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  20. kyredneck

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    And before I get pounced on about those 'Christianized Teutonic tribes', I'm fully aware that not all of them embraced Christianity as a whole. 'Off the cuff', take the Vandals (from where we get our word vandalism) for instance, who were known for their objectiveless destructions; or the Saxons, who some of the other 'Christianized Germanic tribes' attempted genocide on because of their obstinate rejection of Christianity.

    ......good figs and bad figs.......


    ........not all Israel is of Israel....... but God uses them both.
     

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