The seven "ones" of Christian unity (Eph 4)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Watermaker, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. Watermaker

    Watermaker
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    On the "Question of Authority" thread, preacher4truth brought up the subject of the seven "ones" listed in Ephesians chapter 4. I suggested a thread on the topic, and here it is.

    Just in case someone is not familiar with the text (not likely, but why take chances), here is the section of Scripture I'd like to discuss on this thread...


    Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
    Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


    For the sake of clarity, here they are in a numerical list:

    1. One body
    2. One Spirit
    3. One hope
    4. One Lord
    5. One faith
    6. One baptism
    7. One God and Father

    Here they are alphabetically under a black light - what? Just kidding.

    Let's start with the one body.

    It's something all Christians are baptized into.

    1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    It is the church.

    Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
    Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


    Christ is the head of it.

    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


    It is not to be divided.

    1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

    What thoughts do you have?
     
  2. Watermaker

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    Two days and no replies or dissent, I'm taking it that we must all be agreed. Maybe I'm too optimistic. Maybe not.

    Moving on to the "one Spirit" then!

    The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter Whom Jesus told the apostles he would send to them to guide them into all truth. He would speak to them of Christ and bring to their remembrance all things that He had said unto them. I don't have a copy of the Scriptures with me at the moment, so please pardon the lack of Scripture references.

    Any discussion on the one Spirit? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?
     
  3. menageriekeeper

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    Let me just say hallelujah to the first that God has made use into one body. Even Havensdad and me. Calvinists and freewillers. Young earth and old. Sleepy old women and young energetic kids. Whatever our differences, Christ is able to make us ONE. (whether we like it or not!)

    I'm leaving #2 for tomorrow. Its getting kinda late for someone who needs to up and moving by 8 in the morning!
     
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    GE:

    Beautiful and effective and fruitful study! Deserves full marks!
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    I would like to see yourself go on with your study.
     
  6. windcatcher

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    me too ..........
     
  7. Dr. Walter

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    No, I don't agree with this position at all. It has numerous problems. For example, are pre-Pentcostal saints OUTSIDE of Christ? If "in Christ" means in the body of Christ are they OUTSIDE of Christ.

    For example, your application of Ephesians 1:22-23 teaches pantheism. Christ is "head" over the body as he is over "all things." If the idea is a spiritual union between Christ and the body then there is a spiritual union between Christ and the universe = pantheism. The term "head" in relationship to the "body" does not imply spiritual union but rather authority over the body and submission by the body to that authority as He is the authority over all things.

    For example, your application of 1 Cor. 12:25 not to mention verse 26 contradicts your whole theory of the body of Christ. The so-called universal invisible body of Christ is nothing but division and "all" the members can in no possible way rejoice or sorrow with the "one" member who is in sorrow or in rejoicing.

    For example, your understanding of 1 Cor. 12:13 is full of problems. Your interpretation ignores the contextual problem it is designed to address and that is resolving practical disunity in one body by practical untiy.
     
  8. Dr. Walter

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    #8 Dr. Walter, Dec 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2010
  9. Dr. Walter

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    Satan and his kingdom is more united than the so-called universal invisible body of Christ.

    If spiritual union with Christ is the essence of the so-called universal invisible body of Christ then that body must begin with the first saint in the Old Testament or else you are teaching a doctrine of salvation outside and apart from spiritual union with Christ for the greater majority of God's saints as there is 4000 years of saints prior to the cross and only 2000 years after the cross.

    However, if you begin in Genesis with the church body then how can the "apostles" be the first to be set in that body (I Cor. 12:28)???
     
  10. Dr. Walter

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    The Pauline Epistles were not written to those outside the membership of the local congregation. The readers of his epistles had in common one kind of membership in one kind of congregation.

    That is not the context from the second century onward. Gnosticism introduced another kind of membership in another kind of congregational body that was not New Testament in faith or practice. Judiazers that confronted Paul in Acts 15 eventually permeated all of the original New Testament congregations and became what Paul warned about in Acts 20:29-31 - congregations of a different faith and order. Some estimate that presently there are over 37,000 different types of denominations within Christendom and there are seven new ones being formed every week worldwide.

    Either the New Testament kind has completely apostatized or it continues to reproduce after its own kind somewhere out there in professed Christendom. The elect are the treasure in the field but his congregation is the pearl of great price in the world.
     
  11. billwald

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    >No, I don't agree with this position at all. It has numerous problems. For example, are pre-Pentcostal saints OUTSIDE of Christ? If "in Christ" means in the body of Christ are they OUTSIDE of Christ.

    In every dispensation God changes the rules? Every dispensation is a new ballgame? The dispensations are like a series of experiments. When one fails God starts a new dispensation?
     
  12. Dr. Walter

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    Do you really buy into that kind of rationale??? Does God have more than one Savior, more than one kind of redemption? Are human beings different in nature from one dispensation to another?

    Jesus certainly did not buy into that kind of rationale - He claimed to be the only way to the Father BEFORE Pentecost (Jn. 14:6) and restricted all ways down to two (Mt. 7:13-14) and one is the wrong way.

    Paul didn't buy into that kind of rationale - He claimed his gospel was the same gospel preached by all the prophets (Acts 26:22-23; Heb. 4:2).

    Peter didn't buy into that kind of rationale - He claimed that the same gospel preached by the prophets was the same gospel he preached - Acts 10:43.

    God may have different ways to demonstrate men are sinners (law on conscience, law on stone, governments, etc.) but he does not have another way to save sinners. If you are without the Spirit of God you are none of His at any time in any age (Rom. 8:9) because you are spiritually dead in sin. If you are not in spiritual union with God you are in spiritual union with Satan.

    Sorry, I don't buy into that rationale simply because the Scriptures do not teach that rationale.
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE:

    Indeed YES! Dr Walter!

    But in all fairness, don't miss the question mark at the end of Billwald's statement.

    As I understand the two of you, we are all three in agreement.
     
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Watermaker,

    Please do not be discouraged in your faith or be confused that you believe pantheism if you believe Christ is the Head of his ONE CHURCH OF ALL TIMES AND PEOPLES AND GENERATIONS, which our common Christian Confession every day of Christian worship identifies as "the Communion of the saints", and which Christ declared to be the "true worshippers" who worship God "IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH".

    Watermaker, Do not loose Faith in the unseen universal Church of God WITHIN the SEEN Church of God, "Sabbaths' feasting" on Christ, spiritually by the hearing of the Word of God PREACHED "eating and drinking" on Christ.

    THERE is the Church of God, EVERYWHERE.

    Keep it simple; keep it literal and spiritual, but above all, PUT CHRIST ON THE THRONE SHARED WITH NO OTHER: THE HEAD of His Church. That, is Scriptural; that, and that ONLY. "Do not be beguiled of your reward by enticing words." The dragon is the one with many heads; "Christ’s-Body-of-His-Own", HAS ONE!
     
    #14 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Dec 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2010
  15. Alive in Christ

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    My thoughts?

    An excellant post. The truth of the scriptures on display here.

    Good job!
     
  16. preacher4truth

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    That's funny. I never brought it up at all.

    But at least I got credit.
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE:

    Here's how you, came into the picture...

    Quote: Watermaker, “On the "Question of Authority" thread, preacher4truth brought up the subject of the seven "ones" listed in Ephesians chapter 4. I suggested a thread on the topic, and here it is.”

    The 'study' belongs to Watermaker.

    This development made me think, that Dr Walter picked the theme for his objections from DHK's arsenal; now DW is busy fabricating again some drogma out of DHK's theories elsewhere, against Watermaker's honest to goodness presentation of the Scriptures only, that speaks for itself without elaborations.

    Once again, congratulations, Watermaker!
     
  18. Thinkingstuff

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    How does this view stand up with your view of Christ not establishing a single church but independent churches from each other?
     
  19. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    Gerhard...

    Amen, and AMEN!

    AIC
     
  20. Dr. Walter

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    Sorry to disappoint you Gerhard but I did no such thing. What I wrote was my own position and thoughts.

    The Universal church is a complete myth that has not a shred of Biblical support. It is the invention of Augustine elaborated upon and expanded by Luther that most of Christendom as been suckered into and willingly so, since it is the doctrine that supports and defends schisms within the family and kingdom of God.

    I noticed that everyone disagreed with me but no one attempted to challenge the reasons I put forward.
     

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