The shift to contemporary

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Michael Edwards, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards
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    Hello everyone:

    It seems that many churches are moving to what is called "contemporary." I'm not sure that is an accurate term or not.

    What are the thoughts of those on the forum, from a biblical perspective, on the congregation all being dressed down, even the pastor, the music being of ANY style, and a host of anything else that folks are doing in church these days compared to 20-30 years ago.

    I know this is sort of "general," but let's see where it takes us.
     
  2. massdak

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    i see no problem there, as long as the doctrine is biblical. the new testament church was for believers to associate in a more family type atmosphere, some of the staunch and business suit dressed people in church today are far from a family type atmosphere. i think younger new believers are sorta turned off from the type of attitude that the old timers portray, it is funny how some condemn contemporary songs and dress as not appropriate and they have no biblical grounds
     
  3. j_barner2000

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    I think worship must be in truth and in spirit. I refuse to look down upon someone for dress though (as long as it is not immodest). Personally I dress as if I am going before the King of Kings.
     
  4. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards
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    Ok,

    How does one dress before the King of kings and where is this guideline to be found in Scripture.

    Further, since we are before God 24/7, ought we to dress in the manner you have described at all times?

    Thanks!
    Michael
     
  5. massdak

    massdak
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    i think people worry about how they dress too much, maybe it is just better to realize we are clothed with the righteousness of our Lord Jesus, that is the only dressing we need, that is the spirit of truth to be concerned about. we are before the Lord always not just in church.
     
  6. donnA

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    As long as the doctrine isn't faulty there should be no problems. Worship comes from the heart, if a person has to fuss over music style, can't worship to that style(whatever style you might not like), then the worship is no longer from the heart, and it has begun to focus on the music not God. You should be able to worship no matter the style.
    We have a blended worship service, and the pastor still wear suits on Sundays. I don't think what you wear means anything the God as long as you are modestly covered.
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    Interesting sidelight to "dressing up" to worship the King of kings. How would you dress to enter the presence of President Bush? Is our church just a "country club" with khakis and polo shirts, or is it more formal?
    Figure if Joe would shave and put on good clothes to see an eartly king, I will at least do that for corporate worship of the King of kings.

    I believe that IS a major problem with "casual Sunday" mentality in our churches. Attending at all, coming late, bring your starbucks into the service, immodest or inappropriate attire. We have green-haired, spiked jackets and barefoot that feel that they are "cool" and "with it", chewing tobacco during the service.

    Informality leads to irreverence. Never seen the trend reversed.

    Call me an old fuddy-duddy (because it's true) but I see a paradigm shift that is detrimental to our churches.
     
  8. Jim1999

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    I once had a woman ask me if it was alright to come to church without a hat. This was in a resort area and I was so shocked at the question, I said, I didn't mind if she came in a swim costume, just be sure to come. That was in late 40's.

    I would never attend to services without being properly attired, as the respresentative of the Lord. I would consider that an affront to Him.

    If it means getting new people to come, I would never be critical of their attire. My experience, over the years, was that people adjusted accordingly and without prompting.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards
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    Dr. Bob:

    Your statements leave me with a couple of questions:

    1. Where is corporate worship mentioned in scripture in conjunction with apparel (sp?)? Especially in the New Testament Church.

    2. Is there something special about Sundays in terms of our worship, that we're then to slack off on Mon-Fri? That, although it may seem so, isn't intended to be a sarcastic question.

    Thanks!
     
  10. donnA

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    Thats funny Dr. Bob, how would I dress if I were going to meet the presdient?
    Like I do everyday. Becasue thats who I am, and I don't play those kinds of games where I dress like someone I'm not. I also do not dress phoney when I go to church, then I'd be a hypocrite.
     
  11. Deekay

    Deekay
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    As a long-time Baptist I'm well aware that there is far too much emphasis on the superficial in our churches. The attitude of our hearts is really the only thing that matters. Sometimes our outward appearance may reflect that attitude, but often it does not.
     
  12. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards
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    Let's take the average Baptist as an example. If he spends 1 hour in Sunday School, an hour and a 1/2 in worship service and another hour and a half in Wednesday night Bible Study, he has just put in 4 hours of time in "corporate" worship. Let us assume also that we credit this fine Christian with 2 hours of some sort of ministry or service during the week, which is above and beyond just normal day to day routines. So, we'll give this guy 6 hours of time in some sort of group setting with his local body. Assuming this guy gets a full 8 hours sleep, he is left with 112 hours of waking time. Then subtract the 6 hours of "corporate" time in Christian service/worship and the percentage of time spent doing such activity is at approximately 5.4%. In other words, he dresses up only 5.4% of the time that he is supposed to be REVERENT for. Or, we can say that 94.6% of the time, this guy is irreverent toward God.

    How about this guy has a friend come over who wants to do a Bible study through a book of the Bible together. When this friend comes over, are they irreverent if they are not in suits? What about a banded collar? Where is the limit on dress for irreverence.

    Continuing on, I would say that since the nicest attire on a man is a tuxedo (most formal banquets or events with the President will be such attire), then we should fall short of nothing less in church or when we go to work, since we are to be filled with the Holy Spirit at all times.

    This logic above, to me, demonstrates the oddity of saying that we ought to, need to, or that all benefit from a particular yet mysterious dress code that we somehow feel is Biblical.

    Thanks!
    Michael
     
  13. j_barner2000

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    If there was still a king in England and you were to appear in his court, would you not where perhaps your finest clothes?

    Just a personal conviction I have held since I was saved. But I do not judge anyone else on the convictions that He has given them.

    When I am in worship service or out visiting for church matters I try to look my very best. It is just because I feel that is one part of honoring Him.

    [ January 23, 2003, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: j_barner2000 ]
     
  14. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards
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    If there was still a king in England and you were to appear in his court, would you not where perhaps your finest clothes?

    Just a personal conviction I have held since I was saved. But I do not judge anyone else on the convictions.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Friend, I'm still waiting for the scriptural guidelines. I can fully respect your personal conviction, I just hope you recognize that what you're saying is nothing more than that. If you can show me a scriptural guideline for dress in a worship setting, then please let me know.

    Thanks
    Michael
     
  15. j_barner2000

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    Mike, friend, brother. It is just that. A personal conviction. I was not raised in church. The service I first attended and was saved at was at a mall and all were in jeans and t-shirts. That was cool. I just always felt that when we are in the "worship" service, we are formally approaching Him "in His court" and therefore should dress in that manner. It is funny because I am normally the most informal guy you would meet.
     
  16. David Cooke Jr

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    In theory, there is nothing wrong with contemporary services. In practice, they are not effective in promoting a "worshipful" church experience. The style, tempo, volume, and "watered down" theology of most of the lyrics are more suited for entertainment, a concert, than a thoughtful, contemplative traditional approach to worship. Most contemporary worship services are more like Jesus pep rallies or a rock concert, which is fine unless you are there for sunday morning worship.
    There is a reason the worship service is typically held in a "sanctuary" - people need a refuge from the blaring, trivial, "lite" world we live in. They need depth, meaning, and quiet. They need an atmosphere of reflection and introspection, to prayerfully consider God's purpose and message for their lives.
    A praise team/praise band may praise the Lord, but I've found it to be another loud racket that reflects the loud, short-attention span entertainment nature of modern lives. Church needs to be a place that is our refuge. I find no refuge in a drum set and electric guitar, even if I listen to the stuff outside of church and appreciate the music.
    Just my two cents.
     
  17. Molly

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    I call it the downgrade...a low view of God that elevates Him to a level where people thinks He is cool,or desirable....the dress becomes more casual to make the goats more comfortable,the sermons less confrontational(15 min sermonettes),don't pass the offering plate,it might offend a visitor,keep the prayers short and to a minimum amount(don't want to bore people) and make church a social country club,where everyone has a ministry. Yuck!

    On the other hand,church should be the pillar and support of Truth,the word should reprove,encourage,correct sin,etc. The word should be preached in context,expositorally...the love should be genuine,the giving generous,believers singing from their hearts the words of great in depth doctrinally correct songs,and songs based on scripture,like the Psalms.The depth of ministry should be great,the breadth of ministry would be God's job.(not our's :eek: )

    [ January 23, 2003, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Molly ]
     
  18. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    Molly, Molly, Molly

    I am beginning to think that your pastor (or someone to whom you frequently listen) delights in criticizing those who differ from him in methodology. Once again your post reveals your straw men biases.

    My preaching attire on Sunday mornings (which is usually very formal btw) has nothing to do with my view of God. We have people who dress extremely nice in our church and we have those who do not own anything extremely nice. In both groups are those who do and do not seem to have a "high" view of God (according to your standards). Dress is irrelevant.

    Do you think Jesus had a "Sunday best" robe in which he preached so that he was not making the goats comfortable? Give me a break :rolleyes: . Dressing in our Sunday best is basically a Western civ practice that is impossible in other parts of the world. Do they also have a "low" view of God?

    If as you like to emphasize, the Spirit is the one who convicts and draws through the preaching of a particular style of sermon (in this case expository, contextual), then is there such a thing as non-confrontational preaching? After all, the Spirit convicts and confronts. Is the Spirit limited to working within a particular style of preaching?

    I find far more churches that turn into spiritual country clubs that DO NOT fall into the boxes you describe above. They are far more concerned with maintaining the tradition and keeping the goats happy than with reaching the lost.

    I will be bold enough to suggest that the church that is not striving to be relevant is violating God's intent for the church :eek:
     
  19. Michael Edwards

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    Amen!

    I spent a year in Costa Rica doing missions work, and I can tell you that I rarely saw someone dressed up in a suit in many of the churches we were involved with.

    It comes down to the Bible, for me. Our worship is in spirit and truth if we are going to please the Father who is seeking such. To add anything to that, is to add something to Scripture that isn't there, in my opinion.

    Thanks!
    Michael
     
  20. Molly

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    The clothes are not the big issue to me...we have many who dress very casually,it is the attitude of disrespect that I see as a problem. The whole package and why it is being done...haven't we been here before,SBC? You know what I am talking about.
     

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