The Sinners Prayer

It it's in their heart, why do you have to tell them to pray, and what to pray?

 

Some noted scholars have understood "calling on the name of the Lord" to be a pointing to prayer of some sort.

 

That's what I was taught. That was the setup verse at the end of the Roman Road which moved us toward that prayer.

Here's where I get hung up. What does it mean to call on the NAME of the Lord? Is there a material difference between calling on the name of the Lord and calling on the Lord?

Is Romans 10:13 an expansion or clarification of Romans 10:9 (confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, etc...) Can 10:13 be be accurately exegeted apart from 10:9?

TC, you know Greek. Want to take a crack at this for me?

Anybody else, feel free to give your take on my questions.

 

1. Calling on the name of the Lord has two uses in the NT: 1. At salvation (Rom. 10:13); and 2. In continued worship and devotion (1 Cor 1:2).

2. Paul begins his heart-mouth reference from vv. 6-8, which is in tune with the Deuteronomic text his readers whould have been familiar with.

3. This heart-mouth relation is significant because of the OT prophech and here Paul is letting this know what it looks like because of the Messiah's arrival (vv.6, 7).

4. Basically, what is first in the heart, believed, is seen in words, confession, which is verbal faith in this case. Making this public confession is based on what is already in the heart, wrought by the Spirit (1 Cor 12:3).

5. From vv.9-13 is a series of gars, the Greek inferential and transitional conjunction; sometimes gar is translated as "for" or "because." And there's clearly an exact parallel between "believing in Him" and "Calling on Him," for salvation.

That's my 2cents worth. :thumbs:

 

I think many Christians want to make a mountain out of a molehill when the subject is that simple phrase, "in the name of...." or other euphemisms "the name" et al. If you are a police officer, you have something resembling a normal life in your off hours; family, hobbies, reading, television, et al. But when you are in performance of duty you may turn your flashing lights on a speeder, order those creating a disturbance to break it up, or arrest a criminal suspect-- none of which you do as an individual, but you do in the name of the law or in the name your municipality as you act on that entity's authority and not your own. There's nothing mystical about the name of 'the law' or your city, but it just identifies by what authority you are acting. "The name of the Lord" has the same meaning-- you are subjecting yourself and your consequent according actions to that authority.

In either case, note that words can still be cheap. A criminal can impersonate a police officer and still take some action "in the name of the law" without having that authority. And there certainly are Christian impersonators who use those easy-to-speak words prove their 'authority.' It goes much deeper than words, but those words still denote the relation and the actions when they are true. So don't make the words more important than what they denote... because they ain't.

 

I stumbled across this just a few minutes ago...

http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm
Have a read...

I am not sure what to think yet... I think the author takes it to the other extreme (baptism for salvation)... but he has some good history in it of the sinners prayer...

 

Originally posted by EdSutton:

I promised to explain myself today, over my comments. In the case of the publican, this was, in fact, a prayer of faith, and one for salvation. However, as I said in my above post, that is not the case today. The problem comes from how we are used to hearing the verse, as a request for mercy. There is certainly nothing wrong with praying for mercy, and I certainly need my share.

But that is not what the publican was 'praying' for. The word translated as 'merciful', by most versions, is the Greek word "`ιλασκομαι" or "hilaskomai", with a derivative of this word rendered as "propitiation" or "mercy seat" in I Jn. 2:2. What the publican was asking is more accurated rendered as found in the YLT, and the footnote of the HCSB for this last part of the verse in Luke 18:13.

The word ending of 'hilaskomai' shows this to be the case, as shown in the YLT and footnote of the HCSB. The publican was asking God to see him, as He saw the "Mercy seat", or in essence, for the Lord to Himself 'become' the 'blood covering' in his place, at the mercy seat. "God, You be propitiated for me, the sinner." His was a prayer of faith, and he went away 'justified' by that faith- faith in Lord and the future sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We cannot 'pray that prayer,' in faith, today. We can still 'pray that prayer', alright, but today, it is a 'prayer' of denial, or an acknowledgement of UNbelief. The Lord already became and is the propitiation for us, when He was crucified on the tree, there on Mt. Moriah, once for all time. (Heb. 9:14, 26-28; 10:10, 14, 18: I Jn. 2:2) To ask that the Lord again be propitiated, is to pray that the Father send His Son to be crucified again, and literally stomping Him into the ground, calling the precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ "cheap" and insulting the Holy Spirit. (Heb. 6:6b; 10:29)

Three apologies, here. One, I did not get the post completed until "tomorrow", as it is now after midnight.

Second, I apologize for the poor appearance of the Greek font, but it is the best I know how to do on the computer. The very small iota at the end of some of the Greek words is my best attempt at the "iota subscript" that I am able to devise.

Third, my original post had a miscite. The verse should have read Lk. 18:13b2.

Ed

 

What a load of feldercarb. (You Battlestar Galactica fans will know what that means.)

 

There is some history in there, Tim, but it is hardly documented, so let the reader beware. He doesn't even document his C. S. Lewis quote. You can read a biography of Wheelock, Memoirs of the Rev. Eleazer Wheelock, by David McClure, online at www.books.google.com, Chapter X is about his ministry, but it doesn't mention the mourner's bench hs is supposed to have invented.

For the record, here's what a well recognized historian says about the invitation:

H. Leon McBeth writes, "The Separates apparently helped popularize what is now known as the 'evangelistic invitation.'" He then quotes Rober I. Devin (A History of Grassy Creek Baptist Church, p. 69): "At the close of the sermon, the minister would come down from the pulpit and while singing a suitable hymn would go around among the brethren shaking hands. The hymn being sung, he would then extend an invitation to such persons as felt themselves poor guilty sinners, and were anxiously inquiring the way of salvation, to come forward and kneel near the stand." McBeth then writes, "The separates thus devised a method of encouraging on-the-spot religious decisions, to the singing of a hymn, well before the revivals of Charles G. Finney, who is often credited with inventing the invitation" (The Baptist Heritage, p. 231).

 

Yeah, like I said I just ran across it last night.. accidently like, I was searching for something else on the web, and that popped up...

I just thought it would be something we could add to our discussion here.
BTW, where was Grassy Creek Baptist? Do you know?

Thanks for the documentation...

 

I'm not a Battlestar Galactica fan, but I can discern the gist of the remark. Then give me your exposition of the verse, rather than merely giving smart remarks. Is that a fair request? I didn't start the thread.

What is it about my exposition that you find incorrect, as to the language of the verse? I fully disagree with you as to what 'must do to be saved', as per you wrote:

That does not seem to be what Jesus told Nicodemus, as I read Jn.3. And He seems to base this new birth on 'believe", or did I misread the chapter? Nowhere in Scripture is it ever said that "regeneration' precedes faith, that I read, which is what you are here implying. That I do not hold this, should be clear from my posts. The Bible gives a direst answer to the question of what is 'required' for salvation ion Ac. 16:31, if I read it correctly, and that is consistent with such passages as Jn. 3 and Eph. 2:5-10. Nowhere in Scripture is one ever told to pray any prayer, "Sinner's prayer" or otherwise, in order to be saved. One is never told to "repent of sin" to be saved. In fact, one cannot find any of these phrases such as "Make Christ Lord of your life", "Ask God to save you", "repent of sin", "turn from sin", "ask Jesus into your heart" or a host of other catchword phrases we have come to hear on a regular basis, in Scripture at all. Yet over 200 times, we find the words of believe and/or faith having to do with one's salvation. That seems pretty clear to me. And it is just as clear that the Lord made the one-time offering, never to be repeated again, of His precious blood on Mt. Moriah. So give your exposition, and/or show what I have mistakenly exposited, in the verses I cited, is my suggestion.

Or are you perhaps, still waiting for a different propitiation to be asccomplished, not accepting the one as offered almost 2000 years ago? A better one, maybe??

Ed

 

Ed, your exegesis of the publican's prayer gives me food for thought. Beyond that, I agree with you that such terms as "invite Jesus into your heart" does not find it's origin in the scriptures.

I also agree that "repent of your sins" is not found there either. But frequent commands to repent are there. So, I'd appreciate your take on "repent." I know there's another thread on that topic, but this seems also to be an appropriate place to deal with it.

I'm interested in several instances. John the Baptist's recurring theme. Jesus said it often during his ministry. On the day of Pentecost, he was asked "what shall we do?" His answer was to repent. Paul's sermon on Mars Hill in Acts 17 concluded with God's command to all men everywhere to repent, and some believed. Does repent mean the same thing in all the instances I cited?

Thanks in advance, and as usual, anybody else can join in.

 

Is that why it says "if any MAN...? I agree it is written to the church but it is calling one each one.

It is written to believers only if you believe that believers are "wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked." It is written to believers only if you think that believers will be "spewed out" in the rapture. To me, Christ is warning that the whole church is and, in the last days, will be lost! But that would be reading prophecy into a prophetic book, wouldn't it?

skypair

 

I'm hoping through personal testimony to put a little perspective on the sinners prayer thingymabob.

I can remember to the very instant that I believed in Christ. I remember the very moment I believed there was a God. I remember at that momment believing He had the power to do whatever He wanted to do. When I knew those things in my heart I got down on my knees by my bed and asked Christ into my heart. Now I know the momment I first believed I was saved but I did'nt know that then. I knew I was saved after I had prayed. So I would say the benefit of the prayer was to fix my acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior in my mind and heart. To me that would be the benefit of the"sinners prayer".:tonofbricks:

 

Amen, Bill! :jesus:

I'd say of all the "confess with thy mouth" options, prayer is THE best. It's talking to the One you are establishing an eternal relationship with! My own memory of that day is crystal clear as well!

skypair

 

I dunno where it was. Had to be in the South, though, right? (No offense to Squire Robertsson! :smilewinkgrin I'd do the research, but it's Sunday morning here.

Have a good one.

 

Sinners Prayer

If someone asks you to lead them to Christ and help them pray to accept Him what would you say or do. We know from 80% of the posts here that there is no such thing as a 'sinners prayer' nothing that says anything close to Lord I am a sinner and acknowledge my failings before you please forgive me and save me and count me as Yours forever.
I expect the next few posts to say things like:
Thats not what you should say - you should say....
or Thats not in the Bible so pops you are going off the deep end ... or perhaps you will change the subject altogether and talk about farming. Which reminds me chickens are to expensive to raise I would concentrate of veggies and root crops and your aim with a shotgun on those pesky rabbits and ducks. Did I tell you about my cows?

 

Personally, pops, I'm going to keep urging sinners to pray. I was reading through some stuff last night about revivals in the early days of American Christianity, and even though it wasn't written, some how I couldn't imagine preachers even back then not urging sinners to pray!

 

Your conclusions.

When a sinner today prays, "Lord, be merciful unto me a sinner," he's in effect saying, "Lord, apply thy propitiation to me, too." And when a Christian prays, "Lord, be merciful unto me a sinner," he's praying, "Apply Thy blood to my heart again, Lord."

No one is "crucifying the Son of God afresh" by praying, "Lord hear me at thy Mercy Seat."