Featured The sinners prayer

JamesL

If RM needs you to be a cal so he can speak against your view...you are a cal. RM has declared it so:laugh: you cannot resist this BB..."fatwa":laugh:

Although your quotes here show you are attempting to distance yourself from that position and perhaps show some confusion...you have been pronounced a cal:wavey:

Remember...RM sees cals everywhere....even if they are not.

 

Who do you say regenerates a person, Winman, or God, or the preacher?

 

It is God's word that regenerates a person, and God uses preachers to preach his word.

I agree that preaching is important. A person has to know what to believe, they must believe Jesus is the Son of God who died for their sins and rose from the dead. A preacher that does not communicate that cannot expect people to believe and be saved.

But the preacher can play no part in Calvinism, it is ALL of God. You guys are very adamant to say that God and God alone saves the person. Preaching should play no part in the Calvinist scheme, as that would be man participating in salvation with God.

Calvinists talk out of both sides of their mouth. If God alone saves without help from man, then the preacher could say most anything, and if God has decided to regenerate a person he will. Likewise, if God has decided to pass by a person, the greatest sermon in the world will not affect that non elect person one iota.

Preaching makes sense to the non Cal, because we believe God uses men to preach his gospel and save people. But the Calvinist insists it is ALL of God.

Quite frankly, preachers do not make sense at all in the Calvinist scheme.

And don't give me this "God uses means" bit, that is contradicting yourself, it is NOT all of God if that is true.

 

God regenerates a person, nothing else can! And God does use preachers to preach His word, Jesus Christ and Him crucified.{1 Corinthians 2:2}

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs:

 

I Corinthians 1:21

I do believe that God has ordained the end AND the means regarding the salvation of his elect.

 

Not only His elect, but even those believers who are not elect.

It is By Grace, Through Faith

 

All believers are elect.

 

Winman

God does use means...all these posts and you still miss this:type:

 

:thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

:thumbs::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs:

 

Not true at all

 

Then it is not God alone, God has chosen to use preachers, and a preacher is a person.

 

Then it is not God alone. I am not missing anything, I know that a preacher is a person, so at least two persons are involved in the salvation of men, God, and the preacher or witness who tells someone the gospel.

It is you Calvinists that cannot seem to count.

If God wanted to act alone, he could appear to each person alone as he did with Paul, but God doesn't do that does he? In fact, God used Ananias with Paul and guess what? He told Paul to pray the sinner's prayer.

Acts 22:11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Ananias did just what you Calvinists here seem to despise, he told Paul to pray to the Lord for forgiveness of his sins. He told Paul to pray the sinner's prayer!

 

Not all believers are Jews.

 

It is God alone who saves anyone. The fact that God uses someone to preach does not alter that truth. Can't you understand Winman that it is God who calls a man to preach and any good that occurs through that preaching is caused by God.

Your hatred of the truth that God alone saves has blinded you to the truth and you are missing so much knowledge of the grace of God!

Is this how you count Winman: 1, 2, 3, 4 or can you count by 2's; 2, 4, 6, 8, 10?

What is a sinner"s prayer Winman. Have you ever prayed anything other than a sinner's prayer? If so you are unique because Scripture teaches that since Adam only Jesus Christ is without sin.

There is that "sinner's prayer" again. I wish someone would tell me just what they mean. In my opinion every prayer is a sinner's prayer.

Also I would like to meet the man who never prayed for forgiveness of sin. I have met the only Man who lived without sin!

 

It is God alone who can forgive sins and regenerate a person, giving them spiritual life, but God never saves alone, he uses men as instruments.

Even Paul when speaking to Timothy spoke of him "saving" people.

1 Tim 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


This verse shows that man participates with God in salvation. It is important to teach proper doctrine, otherwise people will not hear the proper gospel and be saved.

This is the point I tried to originally make, if salvation only involves God, then a preacher could preach complete error to a man, but if God wanted to regenerate that man he would. It would not matter that a preacher preach proper doctrine if the preacher is not actually involved in bringing someone to a saving knowledge of Christ. Likewise, if God has chosen to pass over a man, again it also would not matter what the preacher preached, that man will be passed over even if the preacher gives a perfect presentation of doctrine.

So it is nonsensical to worry about how or what method a preacher preaches if Calvinism is true. It makes no sense whatsoever.

And I could just as easily say you hate and resist the truth.

I know that God and the preacher who preaches the gospel equals two persons.

If you do not know what the sinner's prayer is, then why are you participating and criticizing others in this thread? You don't even know what you are talking about.

The sinner's prayer is when a sinner specifically calls on God to forgive all their sins and give them eternal life as opposed to praying for an illness to be healed for instance.

I prayed that God would help me find a good used car for a reasonable price and he answered my prayer, but that is not the "sinner's prayer". The sinner's prayer is for forgiveness of sins and salvation, as the publican prayed in Luke 18;

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


Note that the Pharisee prayed and boasted to God how good he was. This is not a sinner's prayer. But note that the publican confessed he was a sinner and prayed for God to have mercy on him. This is the sinner's prayer. And note that only the publican went down to his house "justified", all his sins forgiven.

The Pharisee in Luke 18 did not pray for forgiveness of sin. I do not know men's hearts, but obviously Jesus was giving us an example of how some men pray. They believe they are good and their life merits eternal life. I have never known a man like this, but Jesus gave us this example.

But any many who sincerely prays and asks Jesus to have mercy on him and forgive his sins is saved. This is calling on the name of the Lord for salvation.

But again, if men are not involved in salvation with God, it would not matter how they preached, God will save a chosen elect man at the right time regardless. And if Calvinism is true and God has decided to pass a man by, then it also does not matter how well the preacher preaches, that man will never be saved.

So, these books by John MacArthur and Paul Washer make absolutely no sense if Calvinism is true, the preacher's message has absolutely nothing to do whether a man "truly" gets saved or is a "false convert" in Calvinism.

Calvinism talks out of both sides of it's mouth once again.

 

That is right, and that fact has no bearing on the sovereignty of God

 

I doubt that you know God well enough to say that He must use men as instruments. He uses men to preach the Gospel and that is it!

That verse says nothing of the sort. You have taken the verse out of context and still misuse it. Using your logic you could claim that Paul is telling Timothy he could "save himself" and save others, without any act on God's part. Consider the verse in context:

1st Timothy 4:12-16
12. Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
13. Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14. Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

The Apostle Paul is simply giving a young preacher advice on how to conduct himself as an example for believers. As far as the remarks about saving himself and others he is talking about believers living the life pleasing to God, saving themselves from the world.

You finally got something correct. Has it ever occurred to you that a man can sit down and read the Bible and understand without a preacher? God does want to save His elect and He will, period!