The sky is blue

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by stilllearning, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    For me, saying “the sky is blue”, is a statement of faith.
    Therefore, when I come here and find almost everyone disagreeing with me, and saying that the sky is “red” or “burgundy”, it can bother me.

    Now you know, that I am not really talking about the color of the sky;
    But this will work, as an example.
    --------------------------------------------------
    The fact is, the sky is blue; all genuine Christians have agreed that the sky is blue, for hundreds of years; and it hasn’t changed color.

    Yet, most of the Christians here, have been convinced that it isn’t completely blue.
    --------------------------------------------------
    A good example of this change in attitude, would be the Bible Doctrine of homosexuality.

    From the beginning of time, God’s people have always agreed, about the sinfulness of homosexuality; Not only because the Bible makes it crystal clear, that it is a sin, but also the fact, that the practice itself is clearly against nature(the way God made us).

    Yet today, more and more Christians, are becoming unsure, as to the sinfulness of this behavior.

    In the exact same way, fewer and fewer Christians, are seeing how blue sky really is.
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    Earlier, when I said, that “it can bother me”, when I come here and am repeatedly told, that the sky is really some other color;
    What I mean is, that it is an attack upon my faith, in the fact, that the sky is blue.

    If anyone, allows themselves to be told over and over again, by everyone around them, that something is not true, it can have a definite effect, upon there perception of the truth.
    And this is what I am talking about, “perception”.

    I have been asked, several times, to “prove that the sky is blue”; And foolishly I have gone about to try and do just that. (But it can’t be done!)
    (God, will not allow it to be done!)

    “Every aspect” of Christianity, must be accepted by Faith.

    It is “by faith”, that I know that homosexuality is a sin. (My Faith in God’s Word.)
    I don’t have to prove that homosexuality is a sin, in the same way that I don’t have to prove, that God’s Word is “God’s Word”; or that the Sky is blue.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Now don’t get me wrong; It has been a wonderful blessing for me, to have found this site, and to have been allowed to come here and discuss the issues of the day.

    But occasionally, I find myself having to back off somewhat, and reestablish my center.
    “Christ in me, the hope of Glory”
    Just as many of you probably also do.
    --------------------------------------------------
    I have now been recharged, and am ready to jump back into the fray again;

    But I have learned, that the only proof that any of us have to give, for what we believe is, “thus saith the LORD”.
    E.G. Something is only a sin, if the Bible says that it is a sin. etc.
     
    #1 stilllearning, Feb 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2009
  2. Jim1999

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    Maybe some of the Christians are not so obnoxiously obsessive with the sins of others, and more concerned about the message of redemption from all sin.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. Tom Butler

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    I don't want to diminish your point about the importance of faith. After all, "without faith, it is impossible to please God." Neither do I want to ignore the aspect of reason. God gave of a brain and the ability to reason. Some things in the Bible make perfect sense, both spiritually and intellectually.

    There have been many times that I came to the end of my intellectual understanding, and simply accepted God's word by faith. The Trinity is one area where we must rely on faith beyond our understanding.
     
  4. matt wade

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    And maybe some Christians are so unconcerned about the sins of others that they aren't representing the Gospel properly to them. People need to know what they need redemption from. If you downplay sin, why do they need a Savior?
     
  5. Jim1999

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    If you think I downplay sin, then you need to learn how to read English. I talked about obessiveness with sins as if one sin is worse than another.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. sag38

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    "Yet, most of the Christians here, have been convinced that it isn’t completely blue."

    Brother, I hope you can back up such a blanket statement. Who are "most" of the Chirstians here?
     
  7. Jim1999

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    red skies I see tonight,
    A fisherman's delight.
    Red skies I see this morn,
    Sailor's be warned.

    So, I guess the sky isn't always blue afterall. Maybe it does take faith to believe the sky is blue.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. canadyjd

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    I don't want to burst any bubbles here, but, genuine Christians have argued about the color of the sky since the founding of the church. Please be careful. You seem to be saying that all genuine Christians will always agree with you.

    I have good discussions with folks on this board, but I won't question the genuineness of their faith just because they disagree with me.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  9. Marcia

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    In terms of the topic Stilllearning refers to as an example. the sky is blue.

    And I understand about how other views can be disturbing. If these views are wrong, then it should drive us back to God's word and learn it even better, thus coming out stronger on God's word and as a believer.
     
    #9 Marcia, Feb 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2009
  10. matt wade

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    Touchy touchy Jim. I never said I was referring to you! You spoke about how you think some Christians are, and I did the same.
     
  11. canadyjd

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    Agreed.

    Sometimes, however, we go back to God's Word and discover the sky wasn't the same color we once believed.

    That puts us in the position of holding on to what we had believed, or changing our minds to conform to the teachings of our Lord.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  12. stilllearning

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    Hi Jim1999

    It is unfortunate, that you think of me as “obnoxiously obsessed with the sins of others”, but if we really care about others, we need to be concerned about their sin.

    Proverbs 27:5 “Open rebuke [is] better than secret love.”
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    Before people can receive “the message of redemption from all sin”, they must realize that they are a sinner.

    Therefore, it really does them a disservice, to pretend that everything is just fine, when it isn’t.
     
  13. EdSutton

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    Cute!

    Nice 'code words' here. :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    There are many shades of blue.
    Carolina Blue
    Royal Blue
    Navy Blue
    Light Blue
    Dark Blue
    Sky Blue
    Eggshell Blue...............


    Which shade are y'all talking about?
     
  15. blackbird

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    But Jim----------you say in your statement something like---"A sin is a sin is a sin" and that there is none worse than the next one

    What did Jesus tell His disciples about the one who would betray Him

    "Therefore, he who betrays Me into the hands of sinful man--he hath the great--er sin"

    (emphasis is mine)

    Sure---sin is sin---but according to what Jesus says about Judas----He wouldn't rank something like stealing candy from a baby right along side His betrayal
     
    #15 blackbird, Feb 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2009
  16. Jim1999

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    True, my dear Mr. Blackbird. I did say that. Then, I failed to mention, in that post the unpardonable sin. It falls in the same category of blaspheming against deity.

    There is a verse that says, "no liar shall enter heaven..." Hence, we do have some categories of sins. I still say that sin is sin is sin, and in my context, it remains true. Any sin ful act can land us in terrible trouble, and we ought not to become obessive with which sin it is.

    Cab you even imagine sitting down and listing all imaginable sins and categorizing them by their level of badness? I can't. Hence, we cant become obessed with a particular sin, but with sin in general.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. Palatka51

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    I think that the point stillearning is conveying is that there are some here that are in support of the practice of sin. Forfeiting the doctrine of repentance of sin that Jesus Himself also taught. You can not have forgiveness without repentance.
     
  18. EdSutton

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    Jesus taught a lot of things, among which any "doctrine of repentance from sin" is not to be found, I do not believe.
    Where can one even find any of the phrases such as "repentance of sin," "repent from/of sin(s)," or "repented of/from sin(s)" in the Bible? (I'll even allow the use of any legitimate translation, for this, BTW.)

    FTR, I can find exactly three 'persons', as individuals, that are ever specifically said either to repent or to not repent in the Bible - Job, who was a saved individual before it is said of him, and he said this directly, BTW. (Job 42:6); Judas, who was unsaved both before and after he repented, IMO (Mt. 27:3); and God Himself, who is said to repent, repented, or not to repent some 30 times.

    Uh- exactly what sins are you suggesting our Triune God had need to repent from, if repentance really means "repentance of sin" in Scripture, as you just stated that Jesus taught?? I can speak for no other, but I'm certainly not 'going there' in any way, at any time, and I suggest that even considering that idea is pretty close to blasphemy, a word I do not use often or lightly.

    Must one repent in order to be saved? Absolutely, IMO. But the repentance that is "necessary" or part and parcel of salvation is nowhere declared to be directed toward sin(s) anyplace that I have found.

    Did Jesus preach and teach "repent" and "repentance" during His ministry? Of course. Many times, in fact. Did he add the words "of/from sins" anywhere? If so, tell me where, please.

    BTW, I have posted multiple times that I fully believe in repentance, and I believe I always gave the Biblical definition of what that is, in those posts. One can check the archives to see that I have been saying this same thing since Day 1 of my BB arrival, three years ago.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=31491&postcount=4

    Yet I have at the same time, been wrongly accused (along with several others) of not believing in repentance, at all, as well as not believing in "lordship" either.

    My refusal to allow others to redefine these Biblical terms and phrases is a long standing practice of mine.

    When one believes in Jesus, one repents, in the NT sense of "metanoeO" and as it refers to salvation. Sin (or sins) have absolutely zero to do with "coming to Christ" or believing in Christ for salvation. That problem was fully taken care of by the precious blood of the Lamb slain on Mt. Moriah.

    Sins have a great deal to do with one's "coming after Christ" or following Christ for discipleship, however.

    FWIW, I really don't think that stilllearning is really here referring to sin, any more than to the sky being blue, however. You might note my previous response on this thread. And yes, I also fully believe that H*m*$*xu*lity is a grievous sin, before God.

    Ed
     
    #18 EdSutton, Feb 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2009
  19. stilllearning

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    Hi EdSutton

    I understand your challenge about repentance:
    (How that we can’t find the term “repentance from sin” in the Bible:)

    And I have been round and round about it with some Calvinists on another site:
    (By the way, are you Calvinistic?)
    --------------------------------------------------
    The fact is, the word repentance only has one meaning:
    But it has two applications.

    It’s one meaning is, “to change your mind”:
    But it’s application, is “to act because of that change”.

    Like God changed His mind, about having created mankind:
    And the application of that change of mind was the flood.
    --------------------------------------------------
    In response to your challenge, we have.........
    1 John 1:9
    “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins,
    and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    This is the application of repentance:
    A saved person, changes there mind about there sin, and confesses and forsakes it.
     
  20. EdSutton

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    What does whether or not "you are Calvinistic" have anything to do with the question or anything in my post?? The question is whether or not I have accurately portrayed Scripture, I believe. Hence - -

    Just wonderin'.

    (Since I do not even consider that to be applicable.)

    BTW, do you likewise have any Scripture to back this assertion of "this application," as opposed to merely making the statement??

    FTR, I do not believe "God changed His mind, about having created mankind" in the passage under consideration, but suggest here one is attempting to 'back read' the meaning of the Greek "metanoeO" into the Hebrew "nacham", a questionable practice, at best.

    Actually, it's either "I chose to become a Calvinist." or "I was predestined to become an Arminian." since many do seem to love to apply labels and 'pigeonhole' someone, sans cause or evidence. ;)

    Incidentally, when you get that digested, consider that there is, in the final analysis, no difference between Calvinism and Arminianism, as well. (That statement, which is a true one BTW, should definitely cause you to get a 'big-time' headache.) :BangHead:

    :laugh:

    Ed
     

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