I resisted even reading the thread "The North Won the South got kicked around like a panzie so enough!!!" simply because of the foolishness of such a statement, but I wished I had because . . . KenH makes a valid point that every time the southern supporters attempt to defend states rights (with respect to the civil war) the "yankees" always chime in about slavery. This is probably true. However, I think the reverse happened where since some wished to support the south in the war, they must then somehow prove that this paticular form of slavery was biblical, or, not as bad, etc. Must we have one with the other? Let us agree on a few things. Some sort of slavery was going on in Romans times which Paul takes no steps toward's abolishing. Slavery in the US, wasn't always the brutal treatment depicted in movies. Some slaves benefited from being in the US. MOST blacks today in the US enjoy a higher standard of living then MOST blacks in Africa. Some Blacks even owned white slaves. Okay, now that all the good things about slavery has been said, let's look at the bad. MOST (not all) slaves were kidnapped from there lands are otherwise taken in a way that most fundies on this board (while defending their rights to keep guns) would have fight against if it happened to THEIR own children. MOST slaves came over on slave ships they did NOT want to be on. Hopefully, the southerns who saw the ships arrived did not think this were indentured servents, selling themselves into slavery, as they had shakels around their knecks, etc. All in all, the slavery, as an institution that existed in the united states, was sinful. So what about the civil war? Can we agree that perhaps the south had a valid cause to rebel agaist the north to do states rights, or suprresive economies, etc, while still being wrong on the position of slavery? If the south had won the war, would you hope that the same institution of slavery still existed today, with the great great great grandchildren of slaves still being own and working for whites in the CSA? Why or why not?