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The Subtle Denotation of a ‘Heretic’

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Sep 28, 2008.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It is one who deviates from what is "generally accepted doctrine" of the church (whatever that church may be). Obviously the doctrine of purgatory is heresy to us, but not to the Catholics. At the beginning of the 20th century a number of conservative Christians gathered together and enumerated a number of doctrines which they considered to be "fundamentals" of the faith. Those who went contrary to those fundamentals would definitely be called heretics. They dealt with such doctrines as the inerrancy of Scripture, the substitutionary atonement of Christ, the deity of Christ, the trinity, the bodily resurrection of Christ, to name a few. These were essential doctrines of the Christian faith which could not be disputed by those would call themselves Christians.
     
  2. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Yes I know who these people are and that they are from Yale.
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That is nonsense, and you are badly misinformed.
    From David Beale's book, "In Pursuit of Purity"
     
    #23 DHK, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2008
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    A number of the men who contributed articles to The Fundamentals were Calvinists such as Warfield,Machen,O.T.Allis,J.C.Ryle,George S.Bishop and Thomas Spurgeon.

    You think that the distinctive beliefs of Calvinists are heretical -- yet you would embrace these same men as brothers in the faith?
     
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Some are merely skirting the issue. History provides for us in substantive reality how heretics, those that hold to and promote what others feel is heretical depending on the powers that happen to be in the majority, are perceived and treated. For some of you to try and downplay the historical fact that heresy and the heretics that promote heretical notions have been throughout history believed to be outside of the faith and as such worthy of damnation, yea the fires of damnation, are guilty of divesting your intellectual abilities for the practices most closely akin to that of an ostrich. To try to purport that one can say that another holds to heretical notions without clearly denoting such a one as a heretic is simply absurd.

    Fine, have it your way. If one is so adamant about trying to say that one can call another’s beliefs as ‘heretical’ without in any way insinuating that the individual is a heretic, (and by doing so is completely acceptable and within the guidelines of this list to do so) please explain to the list how one can simply show forth the similarities in the necessitated ends of ones beliefs and that of the clearly understood beliefs of a mere ‘Calvinist' and be guilty of name calling or personally attacking another? Pray tell us how one is NOT a personal attack and is NOT name calling in any way, yet the other is clearly a personal attack and clearly name calling??? Where is the fairness, where is the consistency shown by such utter irresponsible hypocrisy?

    Here one can denote another’s views by the most inflammatory remark possible within the church world, one that fueled the fires of the martyrs, and yet not be viewed by themselves as lowering themselves to such derogatory remarks as name calling or personally attacking another, yet if one simply sets forth the logical ends of ones beliefs with a well known system of theology, known the world over as Calvinism, we hear the cry of ‘Personal attack!’ ‘Name Calling!’ certain reason for editing ones posts, or even censure or banning! The utter hypocrisy cannot be missed by any one with even a shred of fairness left in their being.
     
    #25 Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2008
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I am not the one who calls Calvinism heresy.
    However there are certain people's views or interpretations of Calvinism which have an aberrant theology. There are probably more than a dozen different varieties of Calvinism represented here. (Maybe he was a schizophrenic). :laugh:
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism is not a person.So using the pronoun "he" is not applicable.
     
  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You need to search your memory banks.
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    And the people that you wrongly label as "Arminians" are not followers of a person either. However, you are beginning to derail this thread.
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    [not on topic--derailing the thread]
     
    #30 Rippon, Oct 3, 2008
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  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    [not on topic--derailing the thread]
     
    #31 Rippon, Oct 3, 2008
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  12. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Sorry DHK. It is you that appears to be trying to derail this thread. Can you sit straight faced in front of your mirror and this list and say that you have never called Calvinism ‘heresy’ on this list, if not ‘abominable heresy’ or something closely akin to that?
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Save it HP. Get back to the topic. Or I will begin to edit yours as well. I am not about to get in any personal arguments here. If you can't discuss the OP, then don't post.
     
  14. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    [deleted; off topic]
     
    #34 Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2008
  15. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I'm sorry I meant Princeton. It was a reaction to the liberal movement back at the turn of the 20th century.
     
  16. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    Heretic is not a doctrine against any group of men, other than the scripture itself, given by the inspiration of God. That is the trouble, some are followers of men, and not of God.

    Scripture says we only know in part. When you call another a heretic, you place yourself above that person, as if God gave it all to you, and scripture tells me He did not.
     
    #36 mark1, Oct 3, 2008
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  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    They were not all theological clones. It was indeed a movement against liberalism. But these conservatives came from a wide variety of backgrounds. Judson was a Congregationalist who ended up as a missionary in Burma. There were Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Congregationalists, and others. These were not simply Princeton graduates, but men of widely differing backgrounds, speaking out against the "heresies" of the day.
     
  18. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    [post deleted; off topic]
    To repeat again:
    Save it HP. Get back to the topic. Or I will begin to edit yours as well. I am not about to get in any personal arguments here. If you can't discuss the OP, then don't post. __________________

    Count this one as an official warning.
     
    #38 Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 3, 2008
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  19. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Why don't you give some specific examples? You seem upset by some kind of thing in the past when people were called heretics. Are you talking about the Roman Catholic Church? If so, I need say nothing because I am not Roman Catholic and I don't need to defend them. What they may have called heresy 500 or 600 years ago may have nothing to do with heresy today.



    It would help if you would say to whom you are speaking here. You give no indication.



    This is a question for a moderator or the owner of the BB. It's their policy, not mine. You can say certain beliefs are heretical but you cannot call someone a heretic. It's probably due to the rules against personal attack. If you are so incensed by this you have 2 choices:
    1) Talk to a moderator about this
    2) Leave the forum if you don't like the rules
     
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    1Cr 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

    To "know in part" is to know part of what God knows. It does not mean we are unsure and it does not mean we cannot know sound doctrine. If it did, then just toss your bibles in the trash.

    Here is an example. I have ten individual pieces of information. I am choosing to give you five of these ten. The other five you cannot know because only I know what they are and I choose to withhold them. You now have been given five pieces of information and thus you now "know in part" some of what I know in full. You "know" part of the puzzle.

    For we "know". Right here Paul is telling you that we are certainly sure of some things. More is yet to come.

    Thus the saying goes, do not go beyond what is written. Which is what many heretics do.

    :jesus:
     
    #40 steaver, Oct 4, 2008
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