The Suretiship

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Frogman, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. Frogman

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    suretiship

    SU'RETISHIP, n. from surety. The state of being surety; the obligation of a person to answer for another, and make good any debt or loss which may occur from another's delinquency.


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    Joh 6:37 (KJV) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    Joh 6:38 (KJV) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    Joh 6:39 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    Joh 6:40 (KJV) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. [​IMG]

    There can not one fail to be brought to life from death; if so, then both the word of God and the Son of God has failed.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  2. Wes Outwest

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    Well we agree on that! But those who do not persevere in the faith, who lose what they at one time had, will have their name blotted from the Book of life. Those whose names are not found in the book of life, Rev 20:15, at the Judgment throne of God, get cast into the lake of fire. Ya see, that too is in the bible.
     
  3. Frogman

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    Re-read the definition of suretiship, and reread John 6:37;

    If your interpretation of Rev. 20:15 is speaking of the Lamb's Book of Life, then again, the word of God has failed, the Son of God has failed; and God too has failed.

    Ro 3:24 (KJV) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    Ro 3:25 (KJV) Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {set forth: or, foreordained} {remission: or, passing over}
    Ro 3:26 (KJV) To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Ro 3:27 (KJV) Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

    The believer stands in the righteousness of God, which is Christ Jesus. Not one believer stands or falls on his/her own righteousness; if so, all shall fall, for all our righteousness is as dirty rags and nothing more.

    Perserverance is by Preservation. [​IMG]

    Called by Grace, Justified by Grace, Held by Grace. Now, [​IMG] (rest) in Jesus Alone. [​IMG]

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  4. Wes Outwest

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    Couldn't find suretiship, so I looked up suretyship which appears to be the same basic thing.
    OK! But 6:37 is an incomplete thought! So I posted the context for it which is 33-40
    Revelation 20:15 says, "the book of life", implying there is but one book of life. Yes there are other books, but it seems there is only one "book of life". I throw in Revelation 3:5 because it speaks volumes against Once saved Always saved.
    No man stands or falls on righteousness, but in faith alone. God, as he did for Abraham, views our faith as righteousness.
    And as for Romans 3: there is a greater context which lends its contextual meaning.
     
  5. Frogman

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    Romans 3-5 speaks of the work of reconciliation we have in Christ, accessed certainly by faith, but our access by faith is not discussed apart from at least two other aspects of our justification. These first two are:

    </font>
    • 1. Being freely justified by His grace (Ro. 3:24) This is an eternal aspect (or view, an aspect is simply a view such as the N,S,E,W view or aspect of a building.
      2. In the resurrection of Jesus Ro. 4:25--both eternal and in time, eternal because He offered himself through the eternal Spirit and because He is declared to be the Son of God with power by the spirit of holiness according to the resurrection from the dead (Ro. 1:4) and this same power is the Gospel, wherein there is salvation to all who believe, wherein also the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith--Rom. 1.16-17; which righteousness, God declares is His own, Ro. 3.</font>
    The third aspect of our justification is in our faith--for the just shall live by faith.


    Ro 5:1 (KJV) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

    [what is this peace with God? it is both our justification by because of our reconciliation to God ----how is this accomplished? through our Lord Jesus Christ.]

    Ro 5:2 (KJV) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
    [how do we access this faith, and thereby this justification, and thereby this peace with God? "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand,---whom? Jesus Christ, the church? No, but Christ only. What else? We not only have access, but stand, we not only stand, but also rejoice in hope of the glory of God, is this latter by the church? No, but by Christ alone.]

    Ro 5:3 (KJV) And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
    Ro 5:4 (KJV) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
    Ro 5:5 (KJV) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
    Ro 5:6 (KJV) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. {in due time: or, according to the time}
    Ro 5:7 (KJV) For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
    Ro 5:8 (KJV) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    [And what of tribulations, when rightly considered they are but our joy for in them first we learn patience, and in patience experience and in experience, our hope is increased and this hope makes us not ashamed why? Because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. How are these things accomplished? What is their source? These are accomplished and these have their source in the work of reconciliation, in Christ alone in that Christ alone died for us].

    Ro 5:9 (KJV) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    [How are we justified (I see at least three aspects in Scripture) 1st, in eternity--freely by His grace, Ro. 3:24; 2nd--by the resurrection of Christ---eternal and in time, Ro. 4.25---for he offered himself through the eternal Spirit, and he offered himself once for all---and he was/is declared to be the Son of God through the spirit of holiness according to the resurrection from the dead; and 3rd, we are justified by our faith--Rom. 3:28 & 5:1.

    Ro 5:10 (KJV) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    Ro 5:11 (KJV) And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. {atonement: or, reconciliation}

    [All this is the work of reconciliation, it is in Christ, because redemption is by his blood, because the righteousness of God is revealed in him, because he has been set forth as a propitiation {both the place of sacrifice and also the sacrifice, as well as the seat of God's mercy (see the mercy seat and God's declaration to Moses concerning it, of which without blood none were able to approach, nor with spot nor with blemish, lest they be consumed in the presence of the holiness of God) But now is the believer reconciled to the holiness of God through the redemption that is in the blood of Christ; because it is in this that God has set forth His Son, has prepared that body from eternity past, to be taken in time, to declare His Righteousness, not our own by any sort of works, whether it be baptism, communion, or whatever, but by His blood alone to declare His righteousness that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus Ro. 3.26-27 (the latter excludes boasting, why? Because of the law of faith, and therefore a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    Perhaps this is enough to consider for today. We each have much to do on this day. My prayer is for the blessing of God upon each of you in your worship throughout today.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]

    [ July 31, 2005, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]
     
  6. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Frogman;
    Do you argue that Solomon was saved in spite of his turning his back on God?. Christ said we cannot serve two masters. Solomon worshiped the Gods of his wives and concubines. Was Solomon saved in the end? Even though he turned away from God?
    I believe his name was blotted out of the book of life.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  7. 4His_glory

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    Mike how do you know his name was blotted out?
     
  8. Frogman

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    Dear Brother Mike,
    I believe Solomon is now enjoying the eternal presence of God, but I have no certain way of proving that, except to show you that his crimes (sins) were no more extreme than those of David; Nor of Moses...etc. etc.

    Yes, I do believe Solomon was/is a child of God.

    May God Bless,
    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Frogman;
    Are you really that sure? I mean if whoring after other gods, (two of them by the end of His life), isn't falling as described in Hebrews. I don't know what is. David turned back to God. I don't believe that Solomon did. If I'm wrong please show me.
    I bring up this point because so many today believe you can get saved and sin all you want. I don't think you believe that do you?
    John says in;
    1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    Please explain how Solomon could worship other gods and still be saved. If this is possible then Christ lied when He said we can't serve two masters.
    David paid for his sins as we all do but as far as I know he never worshiped other gods. That is unless it was the flesh of Bath-Sheba he worshiped.
    Didn't God tell Solomon the consequinces of the paths availible to Him?. Have you read where he repented for his rebellion? If so where?
    Sure he could have had the old death bed confession but some would argue that could be to late.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  10. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi 4His glory;
    Is it possible that Christ lied when He told us we can't serve two masters? I don't think so.

    Solomon worshiped other gods,and was told the consequinces of it.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  11. Frogman

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    Brother Mike,
    So many today do go after the god of their flesh,serving their own righteousness. If Solomon was ever regenerated then He possessed the same eternal life that all the regenerated children of God possess.

    Is it not worshipping a strange god when we put our hands upon the altar? Did God not command our hands not be put upon the altar, lest it be defiled?

    Did God not say to not build steps up to the altar, lest your nakedness be revealed?

    Solomon, imho, was a quickened child of God, therefore, he is drinking of the cup of salvation now.

    May God Bless,
    Bro. Dallas
     
  12. whetstone

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    i think if we could lose our salvation by sinning, no one would make it a whole day saved.
     
  13. webdog

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    Wasn't Job considered "righteous" when he was saved from Sodom? It is pretty clear he was living in sin and his relationship with God was hurting, yet he was spared.
     
  14. Frogman

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    Webdog,
    Do you mean Lot?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  15. webdog

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] Yes, Lot. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. Frogman

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    Thought so [​IMG]

    For all who see their reconciliation and suretiship in anything but Jesus, I have a question, well two really:

    </font>
    • Was Lot a righteous man?
      Was this righteousness by circumcision?</font>
     

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