The Temple in Revelation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    If the temple at Jerusalem was still standing when John wrote the Revelation, why is there so much attention placed on the temple in heaven throughout the book?

    If Revelation 11:1-3 refers to a literal earthly temple at Jerusalem, then how could anyone but the High preist worship in the holiest of holies and how could the literal outer court be trodden down by the Gentiles?
     
  2. beameup

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    The "Temple proper" is the dimensions of the Tabernacle. This includes the Holy Place and the Holy-of-Holies.
    The concept that Jerusalem become the center of World Peace has long been held as a goal by religious Jews.
    Tikkun olam (Hebrew: תיקון עולם or תקון עולם‎) is a Hebrew phrase that means "healing the world".
    Jewish thought sees the need for Jews to "heal the world" by bringing about world peace.
    42 months = 3 1/2 years (ie: mid-trib), which indicates that the False Christ, empowered with supernatural abilities,
    will enter the Holy of Holies, declare that HE is GOD, and receive worship by mankind. Some Jews ("the elect") will flee and seek refuge
    as "all hell breaks loose" on planet earth (the "day of the Lord" and God's judgment). :thumbsup: see 2 Thes 2
     
    #2 beameup, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2015
  3. Baptist Believer

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    I may be uninformed about the latest trends in theology, but I don't recall ever hearing anyone who claimed that the temple reconstructed by Herod the Great was still standing at the time of the writing of Revelation. I have always understood - and heard others affirm - that the book of Revelation was authored after the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.
     
  4. The Biblicist

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    That is fine, but that does not explain why the "outer court" is given a metaphorical explanation while the temple proper is given a literal interpretation?
     
  5. The Biblicist

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    Preterist in general believe the book of Revelation was written BEFORE A.D. 70.

    Dispensational Premillennialist believe in the rebuilding of the temple prior to the coming of Christ and thus believe this refers to that future rebuilt temple.
     
  6. percho

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    Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

    The temple of Rev.?
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    This is applied to the first coming and it was fulfilled by Christ teaching in the temple (Jn. 2).
     
  8. Deacon

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    Most place the date of Revelation late first century, after the destruction of Temple.

    The two principle interpretations of the Temple mentioned here are:

    1) an image of the Christian community (see 1 Corinthians 3:16; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:5; Rev 3:12)

    or

    2) the Heavenly Temple (Rev 7:9–17; 12:11 etc...)

    If we understand that believers are the Temple then in the 'new heaven and new earth' God will be with us as he was with man in the garden.

    Rob
     
  9. The Biblicist

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    Without getting into great detail, my view is that the temple is representative of the Jewish and Gentile institutional house of God in both testaments. The outer court represents the incomplete state of the Jewish aspect as they represent the outer court not yet measured or completed.

    There are two witnesses, two olive trees, two candlesticks which are symbols of the institutional house of God in both Testaments. I believe the 24 elders also represent this institutional house of God of both testaments (12 apostles; 12 tribes) or the 12 foundations and 12 gates in the New Jerusalem. On the other hand, the four beasts represent the elect of God represented in the four divisions of the camp of Israel around the tabernacle in the Old Testament. Thus, together, the 24 elder and four beasts represent the total elect and redeemed creation.
     
  10. percho

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    Why not, according to my line of thought, could it not apply to the temple of John 2:19 rather than 2:14? See also Matt. 26:61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

    Was the tabernacle, a picture of the temple, which pictured the body of Christ with the resurrected Jesus being the head of the corner and or the chief corner stone? Which would be the temple spoken of in Rev.?

    BTW, I am nor arguing but asking.
     
  11. Baptist Believer

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    Thanks, I somehow missed that. I am a partial preterit, but I honestly haven't concerned myself too much with biblical prophecy. That's not a good thing of course, but it is a reaction to the "Late, Great Planet Earth" prophecy that I was immersed in during the 1970s and 1980s.

    I think Revelation is less about the future than many people image, but there are definitely future elements concerning the day when Jesus will bring complete justice to the world and those who have refused to enter into life, truth and justice will no longer be sustained by the Lord.
     
  12. The Biblicist

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    Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

    If you try hard enough you can MAKE any text fit what you like. However, if you look at the context in which it is found and the wording it does not lend to your view naturally. In the previous chapters the temple and its sacrifices and preisthood suffered abuse (Mal. 1-2). In John 2:14 the literal temple he comes to is suffering such abuse which he comes and addresses.

    The temple is something he will "come to" rather than something he will indwell.
     
  13. beameup

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    Sorry, I don't see anything "metaphorical" (ie: symbolic). The Holy Place and the Holy of Holies are the places of worship by Jews in this 3rd Temple.
    It is desecrated in similar manner as Antiochus Epiphanies by an "abomination which makes desolate" (setting up an object of worship in the holy-of-holies).

    PS: It might be worthwhile to observe the 4th Temple (Millennial Temple) structure as outlined in Ezekiel 40 and following.
    So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
    And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
    And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet,
    where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile
    Ezek 43:5-7

    You see, Jesus himself will set up HIS throne there in the Millennial Temple, and rightfully receive worship there and rule as both King and Priest.
     
    #13 beameup, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2015
  14. percho

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    What about a verse that Deacon posted? 2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    And does this dwelling come about to the called out ones via? 1 Cor 6:19,20 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

    Does that not make the ones bought, the temple, containing the Holy Spirit of what?

    in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, (the, bought, body, the temple of the Holy Spirit) to the praise of His glory. from Eph 1:13,14

    Am I wrong in understanding, the redemption of the acquired possession, as the refinement and purging of verses 2 and 3 of Mal. 3 as follows?

    But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    No one denies the human body is likened to a temple or tabernacle wherein God dwells. However, do you admit that there is also a physical material temple in both the Old and New Testament?

    If you do, then why would you take a passage from Malichi wherein it is the literal material temple, its preists and sacrifices that has been the subject of this book and then assume that this passage had some other kind of temple in mind? Especially when the immediate context offers nothing to make that assumption? Especially when all the texts you refer to are clear by their immediate context to refer to the physical body????
     
  16. percho

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    First, what is the purpose of the OP.

    I have always thought before the coming again of Christ there would be a rebuilding of a material, temporal, temple and I still lean toward that, subject to change.

    However, I am not sure that will be the temple of God that Christ will come to.
    Eph 2:19-22

    And as I said, I am just trying to understand the scriptures.
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    I never implied it was the temple he would come to. I stated very clearly it was the temple existing in his day in John 2:14 that he still called his "my house" which they made a den of thieves. They certainly did not make his physical body a den of thieves.

    I am not sure another temple will be built prior to the coming of the Lord. I really don't believe Revelation 11 refers to any physical material temple but is a symbol of something else.
     
  18. Darrell C

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    I also take the position that Revelation was written after the destruction of the Temple. The Temple that will exist in the Tribulation is irrelevant to the former Temple as well as the Temple in Heaven, which is the True Holy Place.


    If the Temple is rebuilt it is a given that Levitical Service will have resumed. I would suggest that the outer court is given, by God, to the Gentiles, which does not necessarily restrict Services, though we know there is one issue which governs what takes place there: the Two Witnesses. Those that trod under foot the City (not the outer court specifically) does not preclude sincere Gentiles seeking to approach God at the Temple. It makes sense, actually, because during that first 3 1/2 years...it is going to be bad, and there will likely be many who turn their thoughts to God.

    Something I would also suggest is considering who is in view concerning who worships therein:


    Revelation 11

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.



    It would seem likely to me that when the Tribulation begins the Temple will likely have resumed Levitical Service. The Two Witnesses will, I believe, secure the Temple (and possibly Levitical Service) until they are killed, the time being 3 1/2 years. When they are killed, resurrected and raptured...Antichrist stands where previously he could not. It is at that time we see the Abomination of Desolation stand in the (earthly) Holy Place.

    God bless.
     
  19. tyndale1946

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    Did not Jesus come to his Fathers house? Did he not come to the temple and condemn it? There is a book I am now reading which I think you would enjoy... Jesus and The Holy City New Testament perspectives on Jerusalem by P. W. L. Walker. How Jesus and his disciples viewed that temple and how it was the center of everything. Those brethren that believe that there will be another Temple built I will not argue against but pose this question... What for?... The temple and everything it in was a type and shadow of Jesus Christ. Question when the true is come why is there any need to keep what it represented? The Temple and all ceremonies and priestly line were destroyed by the Romans in A.D. 70!... According to The Works Of Flavius Josephus the Romans were not really responsible for destroying the Temple but God was. Josephus say as much and he was an eyewitness.
    As the scripture state the law and the prophets were until John: since that that time the kingdom of God is preached, and everyman presseth into it. According to Matthew Jesus said Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am come not to destroy but to fulfill. What does that mean to us. We go to Christ who according to Revelation 1:5 Hath made us kings and priest unto God. We offer up our bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God which is our reasonable service. Because Jesus Christ loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood... Brother Glen
     
  20. beameup

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    Ezekiel chapters 40-48 lays out in great detail a Temple that has not yet been constructed. I would argue that God does not waste precious space in his Scripture for no reason.
    In this future Temple, the Messiah Jesus will have a THRONE. There are a multitude of OT passages that refer to Messiah ruling from Jerusalem.

    And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
    So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
    And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
    And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where
    I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile,

    Ezekiel 43:4-7

    The "Temple" in Revelation, by comparison, seems to be the "bare minimum" as the Tabernacle was the "bare minimum" for worship purposes.
    There is no mention of detailed dimensions or mention of Messiah in the Revelation (Tribulation) Temple.
     
    #20 beameup, Mar 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015

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