The Ten Virgins And The Bridegroom

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by tyndale1946, May 8, 2003.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Matthew 25:[1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

    [2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

    [3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

    [4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

    [5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

    [6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

    [7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

    [8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

    [9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

    [10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

    [11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

    [12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

    [13] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

    So brethren you know how I love to stir up the pot and what is this story teaching us... Comments?... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  2. Frogman

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    Brother I think the key to understanding this is two fold, first, what is the kingdom of heaven, next what is meant with the mention or refrence of the bride.

    I believe the kingdom of heaven is the rule of Christ from the throne of David. At this time Christ will rule in righteousness;

    'Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; whe he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.' I Cor. 15.24

    Matt. 25. 1-13 is a wedding parable, spoken to Jews, in light of this I answered a similar post last October in the following way:

    In the Jewish marriage ceremony, which would have been the picture the hearers would have received, the Bridegroom at this point comes to the virgins but the groom has his bride with him, he is not coming to take his wife from among the virgins, this is after the marriage consummation and is before the wedding feast which occurs in the Bridegroom's father's house. I cannot say I am dogmatic on this but this is how I lean on my understanding of it. There is much to be gleaned from it. I will continue to work with it. I know others do not agree with me particularly, but I would think the best way to understand it is to understand what the hearers saw as the parable was told to them. Check out the url in the above quote and see what you think.

    More later, just thought I would give everybody a target :D .

    (If any of yall disagree with me, don't feel bad, my pastor disagrees with me somewhat on this one too) [​IMG] I think he believes the five wise virgins represent the bride and the five foolish represent those who are not of the bride. Thus it would be comparable to the foolish virgins being churches in a similar situation as that at Laodicea and have not repented. Something like that. All I know is that this parable is difficult for me unless I approach it from the understanding of the Jewish wedding. It is posts such as this one when I first returned to the BB that endeared me to so many [​IMG]

    Get out your gigs boys!!! Frog season is now officially open. [​IMG]

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Interesting Brother Dallas but I pose this question... If the other foolish virgins were not of the bridegroom would they not cease to be virgins?... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  4. Frogman

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    The above url didn't work for me try this one:

    http://ohr.edu/judaism/articles/wedding.htm if you are interested, if not, don't try it. :D

    I will answer your question after a while brother Glen, but you may have to look me up in that glorious day [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Bro. Dallas
     
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I've heard others say this is when Christ returns to gather his own to glory. Verse nine says this isn't so... How can the wise virgins tell the foolish virgins to go and buy for yourselves from them that sell if they can't obtain it?... This is something they can obtain and if they couldn't then are not the wise virgins as foolish as the foolish virgins?... Where did they go to buy the oil and who was selling it and what was the price?... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  6. Yelsew

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    The ten would-be brides of the bridegroom are the church in the world today. The bridesmaids are representative of believers in the church. There are those who do everything in their God Given power to be ready for the return of the Bridegroom (Jesus), and there are those who are mere hangers-on, the pew-sitters if you will, going along for the ride, buying their fire insurance.

    When the Call comes that the Bridegroom is coming, only those who are truly ready will be taken, the rest who are not ready will be left behind. (one shall be taken the other left behind).

    The church today consists of those who are true believers and those who are wannabees. The difference is the Holy Spirit indwelling. Not all who sit in the pews are true brides of Christ, only wannabees. It is not a matter of the elect and non elect, but rather those whose individual faith is in Jesus Christ, those who already bear his marks through submission to His will.

    No, they cannot be identified by their works in the church, because salvation is not of works, lest any man should boast, and you all know those who boast of what they do for God.

    They can only be identified by the amount of lamp oil they keep fresh and at the ready. There are many who have no reserve whatsoever. Those are easily identified by their one foot in the church, one foot in the world stance. They are busy trying to light the world with their individual lamp instead of letting the world be drawn to the collective light of the church's lamps. They squander their oil by so doing because to get more light for a dark world, they must expose more of their wick, thus burning more oil. They use up their reserve and when the bridegroom comes, they must scurry to find more oil, thus missing the opportunity to enter the wedding.


    Bro. Glen, You do recognize the allegory in the illustration do you not? Verse nine is a continuation of the allegory, and is not therefore a statement that disproves this illustration as being the return of the Christ.
     
  7. Frogman

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    I attempted to answer your post Yelsew, and surprisingly enough it wasn't in the collective attitude of disagreement, however, God in his Sovereignty designed that I inadvertently 'hit' the wrong sequence of keys and my former post is now lost to the oblivion of all other commuications from the time of Samuel Morse to the present.

    Sorry.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  8. Ray Berrian

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    Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer jots down this view of the kingdom. 'The Kingdom of Heaven, which embraces any sort of empire that God may have on earth at a given time. The Kingdom of Heaven appears then in various aspects through the centuries . . . ' Vol. VII p. 223

    Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer former President of Dallas Theological Seminary says that 'the Kingdom of Heaven' is a phrase peculiar to Matthew's Gospel (3:2, etc.) and indicates the earthly Messianic reign of Christ. Any rule of God over the earth is a form of the kingdom of heaven (cf. Daniel 2:44). Vol. VII p. 187.

    It is interesting that the Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew 3:2 was on earth during the time of Jesus life on the earth while John the Baptist was preaching, 'Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.'

    'The Kingdom of God' includes all intelligences in Heaven or on earth who are willingly subject to God.' Vol. VII p. 223.

    With this as a backdrop let's consider Matthew 25:1. 'Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened to ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the Bridegroom. . . '

    With Jesus use of the words, 'the kingdom of Heaven' He has pointed to the fact that He is speaking about a future earthly kingdom. Jesus tried to set up His earthly Kingdom while the God-Man on the earth. The Israelites rejected Him [John 1:11].

    After the church is in Heaven He will come again at His triumphant and war-like entry [Revelation 19:11] again into this sphere destroying the enemies of the Cross, and all who have ignored or hated Him. In Revelation chapter twenty you will find more than one reference to His reestablishing of HIs Kingdom on earth. This time it will be effectual.

    Matthew 24:21 raises the issue and event called the Great Tribulation. In the next chapter you will find that Jesus smoothly moves into the people who will be dealing with His establishing of His earthly Kingdom. Some will call Him Lord [vs.11] but not via the Holy Spirit. Somewhere in the N.T. it says, 'No one can call Jesus Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.' Apparently, they will try to act like they are on His side but He will say, 'I know you not!' The ones who will not know Christ will be those who had lamps but no oil. Verse thirteen of Matthew twenty-five Jesus is pointing to His Second Coming as duly noted in Revelation nineteen.

    Matthew 25:14 continues with the same era of time in the future. Note verse 32 shows that Jesus will divide the sheep from the goats, suggestive of the saved and the lost. Verse 41 does not leave a very nice destination to the lost.
     
  9. KenH

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    Was Chafer a dispensational premillennialist or an historical premillennialist?
     
  10. Frogman

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    I haven't given up on this brother Glen, I know what I believe; I have been busy had alot to do today. I have begun a study of the passages and will post something. Just remember, ol' Frogman is a brider;

    Does anyone know the story of Absalom defiling David's concubines?

    II Sam. 15.16
    II Sam. 16.20-22 and
    II Sam. 20.3

    Bro. Dallas
     
  11. Frogman

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    Interesting Brother Dallas but I pose this question... If the other foolish virgins were not of the bridegroom would they not cease to be virgins?... Brother Glen


    Here we have first:

    Matthew 25:1  ¶Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.


    G5119
    τότε
    tote
    tot'-eh
    From (the neuter of) G3588 and G3753; the when, that is, at the time that (of the past or future, also in consecution): - that time, then.

    It is said ‘then’ given by Strong’s to be understood as above. tot’-eh and further distinguished as the neuter of

    G3588
    ho ὁ, ἡ, τό
    hē to
    ho, hay, to
    The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.

    Combined with

    G3753
    ὅτε, ο ̔́τε, η ̔́τε, το τε
    hote ho te hē te tō te
    hot'-eh, ho,t'-eh, hay'-the, tot'-eh
    From G3739 and G5037; at which (thing) too, that is, when: - after (that), as soon as, that, when, while.
    Second form also feminine, third form also neuter and fourth form simply the article G3588 followed by G5037; so written (in some editions) to distinguish them from G3752 and G5119.

    An article is either definite or indefinite, a definite article has an object, an indefinite article does not.

    Generically an article is a noun used as a particular thing of a distinct class, a particular piece of writing in a larger work, a clause in a document. [The New Lexicon Webster’s Dictionary of the English Language, Encyclopedic Edition. (53) entry under ‘article’]. In a definite article the object (noun) is clear, not vague, limiting, definite bounds, ‘…a definite area, designating an identifiable person or thing (252). An indefinite article is one without a clearly stated object, does not clearly define the boundaries or limits ( a, an); (491). And according to Webster’s then is an adverb meaning at that time, at the time immediately following, at another time, next in sequence, order etc., (1024).

    In view of these we should first answer the question: “What is the object of then. Once this has been determined we can easier understand the parable which has as its point the kingdom of heaven. Here the is the definite article, signifying a specific kingdom and a particular one, not “a” or “an” kingdom. It is at this time that the mystery of the kingdom of heaven is revealed. What time? It is that time immediately following the closing of “Chapter 24.”

    Prior to this and concurrent with our own time we hold the kingdom of heaven in a mystery, this often causes much speculation as to the nature of this kingdom, its extent, origination, or development. We have at present running concurrently as near as I can tell from Scripture the following distinctions:
    </font>
    • The Kingdom of God</font>
    • The Family of God</font>
    • The Kingdom of Heaven</font>
    • The Church</font>
    These are the distinctions I see in scripture, I believe these run concurrently one with another, but that each, by scripture can be identified and distinguished from another. Later I will attempt from scripture to show these distinctions; their periods in time and their extent in eternity future.

    Pray for humility. Search the Scriptures along with me and let us determine whether these things be so.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  12. Yelsew

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    Wow, that'll surely confuse the sheep!

    So which is it in the cited parable?
     
  13. Frogman

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    I specified which one it is that we are dealing with in this particular passage.

    Hebrews 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    Christ said to feed his sheep, some provide no opportunity for growth, others do at least attempt that.

    1 Kings 4:21  And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life.
    22  And Solomon's provision for one day was thirty measures of fine flour, and threescore measures of meal,
    23  Ten fat oxen, and twenty oxen out of the pastures, and an hundred sheep, beside harts, and roebucks, and fallowdeer, and fatted fowl.
    24  For he had dominion over all the region on this side the river, from Tiphsah even to Azzah, over all the kings on this side the river: and he had peace on all sides round about him.
    25  And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon.
    26  And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
    4:27  And those officers provided victual for king Solomon, and for all that came unto king Solomon's table, every man in his month: they lacked nothing.
    28  Barley also and straw for the horses and dromedaries brought they unto the place where the officers were, every man according to his charge.

    Seriously fellows, does anyone have any comment from the following scripture in connection with this?

    Does anyone know the story of Absalom defiling David's concubines?

    II Sam. 15.16
    II Sam. 16.20-22 and
    II Sam. 20.3

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
  14. Ray Berrian

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    Some have gone around the barn more than three times. In order to understand Matt. 25 and the Parable of the Ten Virgins one has to define the meaning of 'the Kingdom of Heaven.'
     
  15. Ray Berrian

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    Ken H,

    I don't know if Dr. Chafer was a dispensational premillennialist or a historical premillennialist. It might be difficult to research this. If I come across anything in his theological volumes I'll be glad to bring the information to the table.
     
  16. KenH

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    Thanks, Ray. [​IMG]
     
  17. Frogman

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    I agree brother Ray. I am working up to that. As I outlined above would you agree on the four distinctions?

    The Kingdom of God
    The Family of God
    The Kingdom of Heaven
    The Church

    Do you agree this distinctions are shown in scripture? Would you add any other distinction, or would you incorporate any of the above?

    Personally, I believe the Kingdom of Heaven is that time of the 1000 yr. reign of Christ. To say this is to deny that Christ is sitting on the throne that God has given to him; the Throne of David. There is more, but I am interested in what others believe concerning this. Remember, the throne of David was in Jerusalem and not in heaven, remember that at the end of the 1000 yr. reign Christ will deliver the kingdom up to the father; after he has put all things under his feet and the last thing being death. But having put all things under him he yet will be subject to him who has put all things under him. (I Cor. 15) I believe.

    Though I believe this, this is not something I would be dogmatic on, what are your thoughts?

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  18. Ray Berrian

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    I agree with you, Brother Dallas, that the 'kingdom of Heaven' is the 1,000 year reign of Christ on the earth in Jerusalem in the future. Christ is not at this time sitting on the throne of His father David. He is presently enthroned in Heaven at the Father's right hand. After the church goes to Heaven at the Rapture, after a seven year period He will again appear at His Second Coming and will immediately set up the Millennial Kingdom on the earth.

    Your other distinctions are also to be found in the Bible. I think many or most Christians use the term, 'the Kingdom of God' which includes all who know and love our Lord. We are in the Kingdom of God and are part of His church.
     
  19. Frogman

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    Thanks Bro. Ray, have you cross refrenced the Scripture from the following?

    II Sam. 15.16
    II Sam. 16.20-22 and
    II Sam. 20.3

    What are your thoughts concerning these writings?
    I think it is teaching in line with the passage at Matt. 25.1-13

    Bro. Dallas
     
  20. Yelsew

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    The Kingdom of God is wherever God is King! I am in the Kingdom of God this very minute.
     

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