The Theological Mix of "God and Country"?

I didn't say because we are religious, I said because of religion.

While there are Christians worldwide, no country represents Christianity like America. The Muslims call us The Crusaders.

And of course, Israel represents Judaism, the Jews.

Now I have heard this theory (there are many theories), but it does make me wonder, that the last days are shown in the story of Joseph. Joseph represents Jesus, his brothers represent Israel, and Egypt represents the church, or Gentiles that come to Christ.

First, Joseph was betrayed and rejected by his brothers, the Jews. He was sold and went down to Egypt, just as Jesus was rejected by the Jews, and so Paul went to the Gentiles.

There came the seven year famine upon all the world in the days of Joseph. This is the same number of years as the tribulation. All the world went to Egypt during this famine.

Where did Joseph's family go during the famine? They went down to Egypt, just as today Israel depends on the United States primarily for protection. It is not so much the United States as a government that supports Israel, it is the "religious right" the Christians in America that supports Israel. But notice lately there seems to be a falling away of support for Israel.

When Joseph's brothers first went down, they did not recognize Joseph. They did not understand his words. But also, the Egyptians themselves did not truly know who Joseph was either.

But again, Joseph's brothers did not recognize him the first time they went down to him, just as the Jews did not recognize Jesus the first time he appeared to them.

But the second time they went down, Joseph revealed himself to his brothers and saved all the Jews. They were delivered out of the famine. But also, when Joseph revealed himself to his brothers, he also revealed his true identity to the Egyptians. And all the world was delivered by Joseph.

Now, I know this was way off subject, but it is an interesting theory that does make sense in many ways.

 

To mix God and country is akin to idolatry, in my opinion.

 

Amen!





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So are you saying that we ought to divorce God from our thoughts about our country? Do we compartmentalize our lives to the point where God and country are separate?

To deny that God has blessed our country seems to refuse to face facts. I may be wrong, but I don't think that RevMitchell is equating God and country.

 

Are you sure of that? Is there any mix of God and country shown in the scriptures?

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Psa 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

 

America is hardly the Theocracy of Christ's future Kingdom, so that parallel is not a good one. I'll mix country with Christianity in America when God is the King here. But I don't ever foresee that happening.

 

"So the tribune came and said to him(Paul), “Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?” And he said, “Yes.”
Paul also recognized he was a Roman citizen.

You can go back to England any time. I'm thankful for the freedom we have by those that fought for that freedom. You say you are thankful for the privilege, but you wouldn't have that privilege if it wasn't for men and women fighting for our freedom.

Well said!

 

But you have a habit of coming to opinions based on ideology and nothing else.

 

I've never been to England, so it wouldn't be going back.

And I am grateful for being born in a place of opportunity and freedom. And I recognize many have died in various situations and I am thankful for them and their families, but that doesn't mean I espouse the motivation and impetus for all war in every situation.

Frankly, it is cliche and a bit unnecessary to suggest I relocate while refusing to interact with my statements. I usually (in my best moments) do my best to respect other viewpoints and reconcile at whatever point possible.

 

This is counter to the American idealogoy of freedom. If this person decides not to take part in the pledge of allegiance, that is his free choice to do so. Who are you to tell him he should leave the country for not meeting your ideal of national pride? I have a similar conviction against honoring the American flag, at any time not just during a corporate worship service. But that is my conviction which I'm not forcing on anybody. And that is also my freedom to do so being born in this relatively free country of America.

And Paul took advantage of his earthly citizenship... but I'm sure you would not call Paul a patriot of Rome.

 

I don't know if this is directed at me, but let me posit an answer.

Of course we don't divorce God from thoughts of our country. Every good and perfect gift is from above. Due to Biblical command, we owe a debt of obedience to the rulers and rules of our respective countries to be good citizens so that our testimony is not compromised. However, we must realize our citizenship is temporary and that Nation does not come before Kingdom. When some church services look like and sound like the local political party rally or an Independence day celebration on the courthouse lawn rather than worship of the triune God, we've crossed the line.

One service I watched on TV yesterday had one mention of God and that was due to the song "God Bless America". No gospel, just history, patriotism, apple pie, and "aren't you glad you live in America" kinda fluff. This is unacceptable. There are ways we can worship God and yet be confronted with the reality of our responsibility to state due to our responsibility to God

 

Sir, you have no idea how I come to my conclusions. Perhaps you would be happier if I asked you what my opinion was before I posted it.

I realize that as a conservative you have little, if any respect, for what a "liberal" has to say, but that does not mean you are correct.

 

Don't we all do this?

 

No what would be easier is if you provided some basis for your "opinions" when asked.

 

Good initial post Rhet.

I've often thought the very same thing.

I also sympathize at bit with the "liberals" here. It's true that we see ourselves as the "good guys" in every war, sentiments which would NOT be shared by many other nations. But that should not diminish the loyal contribution and sacrifice on the part of individual veterans who have served.

Patriotism is fine thing. I guess I just don't see why it belongs in a church service.

 

Good post, Charles.

I am patriotic in that I appreciate the privilege of living in this country and the blessings that are afforded me here. But my allegiance is, not to the U.S.A., but to Christ's Kingdom. Put me anywhere in the world, and that would be the case.

As I said before, this kingdom will fail, sooner or later, regardless of how many Christians are living here or if Christianity remains as the predominant civic religion. We serve a higher throne, which is forever.