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So you did not need the Holy Spirit working towards you then in order to come to Christ and get saved?

 

You totally misunderstand my view. I do not think faith is a work in any way shape or form. Faith is a ceasing of work and depending 100% upon Jesus alone to save you.

I have likened it to the fire departments a hundred years ago, when someone was trapped in a tall building, the fire department would spread open a large net and call for the trapped person to jump, promising to catch him.

Now, some folks did not want to trust the firemen alone to catch them, so they tried to climb down. And that is how many folks approach salvation, they try to help Jesus. They think they must stop sinning, or at least try to stop sinning, and show good works, like going to church, paying tithes, or performing good works like giving to the poor.

But Jesus does not need our help, just as those firemen did not need our help. You need to quit trying to save yourself, and just cast yourself with complete abandon upon Jesus. Those folks needed to let go of that window sill they were clinging to and jump, depending completely on the firemen below to catch them as they promised.



Now, what I'm getting at is this: Some folks have lots of faith, lots of confidence. Some folks would have no trouble at all jumping out of the 4th floor window into the fireman's net below.

On the other hand, some folks do not have a lot of faith, they are not confident, in fact they may be outright fearful to jump. This person might scream the whole way down when they jump, while the confident fellow had a big smile on his face when he jumped.

Who trusted the firemen more? NEITHER. They both trusted the firemen COMPLETELY. They both fully committed their safety and very life to those firemen.

And this is how it is with salvation, some folks never doubt their salvation, and are fully confident that they have trusted Jesus and are saved.

On the other hand, many folks are fearful and afraid, and sometimes they completely doubt they are saved.

But if both persons came in their heart to Jesus and cried out for him to save them, who has trusted him the most? NEITHER. They have both fully committed the salvation of their souls to Jesus alone.

And unlike men, who could possibly fail to catch the jumper, Jesus will NEVER FAIL or REFUSE to catch anyone who leaps to him. This is why Jesus said, he that cometh to me I will in NO WISE CAST OUT (Jhn 6:37)

The folks in Matthew 7 and the Pharisee in Luke 18 did not trust Jesus to save them, they trusted in their own good works. They thought because they turned over a new leaf and did all sorts of good works that God would be pleased with them and grant them salvation on merit. No way.

Jesus is not going to tell someone their faith was too weak or small if that faith was in HIM. It is not the size or amount of our faith, but the OBJECT of our faith that matters.

Anyone who comes to Jesus in their heart and depends upon him only will be saved. The word of God tells us that, and God cannot lie.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Some folks call this easy believism, and it is easy for us. But Jesus had to give his very life to save us. It was not easy for him.

 

Why dodge the issue? The issue is not that God will save those that trust in Christ, He does!! The issue is who decided who actually trusts in Christ? The person or God. It is God. Get it, got it, good.

BTW, John 6:37 actually says those that arrive in Me, I will not cast out. It is God who puts individuals in Christ, not the individual, 1 Cor. 1:30.

 

So you run from truth, and seek the darkness?

Anyone can ask questions calculated to disparage and ridicule.

Why not put forth your view, unless you are an empty suit.

As for me, I believe irresistible grace is a mistaken doctrine, as demonstrated by Matthew 23:13.

 

The truth is that jesus died as a substitute for sinners, and if there are sinners still unsaved by that, would that mean that God plan to save "all" failed?

For he desires ALL to repent and be saved by jesus, correct?

or is it that his death was a surety and provided atonement for a specific group of people?

 

Calvinists post fiction after fiction. Now they claim God's plan to save each and every individual has failed. Then the Calvinist claims since God desires all men to be saved, his plan was to cause each and every person to come to faith. This particular Calvinist often posts views that do not reflect the published position of Calvinism, and here we have yet another example.

Calvinism claims Jesus did NOT become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world. But scripture, 1 John 2:2 says He did.

Calvinism claims God does not desire all men to be saved, but scripture says He does, 1 Timothy 2:4

Calvinism claims Jesus did not lay down His life as a ransom for all, but scripture says He did, 1 Timothy 2:9.

 

You act as if people cannot know they have trusted Christ.

If I asked to borrow your car, and you gave me the keys, would you KNOW that you have trusted me with your car? Or would you doubt?

If you have come to Jesus in your heart and asked him to save you, you have placed your soul in his hands. You have trusted him to save you. It's not a maybe or perhaps thing. You can know for a certainty you trusted Jesus.

Folks in the scriptures KNEW when they had believed. It was not some magical, mysterious thing as many people portray it.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Paul asked these disciples of John if they had received the Holy Spirit "since" they had believed.

Did they ask? We don't know? We are not sure we have believed. How can you know you have believed?

No, these folks knew they had believed, no doubt about it. They simply hadn't heard of the Holy Spirit.

If you trust Jesus, you are saved. You can know you have believed, and you can know you are saved.

1 Jhn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Salvation is a "know so" thing, not a "hope so" thing.

 

Van

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wrong again twaddlemaster:laugh:

no Calvinist would say this:thumbsup:

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no Calvinist teaches this:thumbsup:

Cals understand the scope of this verse...you do not

cals understand that verse...you do not

cals understand how all is spoken about,,,it ha still escaped you:thumbs:

 

You're the one on here who posts error after error. We have to wade through it day in and day out. But alas...

Show me where God has ever intended to save each and every individual. I'll be waiting for quite a while....ah, you found it in your "my bible"....

This Calvinist doesn't believe God desires all men to be saved. He doesn't get any joy out of them dying lost, but He doesn't desire to save all men w/o exception. More oy your "my bible" bunk, I see....

No Calvinist will be in "lock-step" with each and every other Calvinist. Just like no five-pint Arminian would ever want you to be associated with them. They like you as a non-cal...:thumbsup:

He propitiated, paid the sin debt for His sheep that populate the kosmos. But He didn't propiate for each and every person who ever lived. If He did, then all would be saved. You, sir, have shown post after post, to be devoid of any biblical context. Just rip the context the way it best fits your agenda...

Building one's case off of one verse is perilous to you. The CoC use Acts 2:38 to build their baptismal regeneration doctrine. En toto, God sent His Son to die for His sheep....Ezekiel 34, John 10, John 17, &c. If God sovereignly desired that all would come to the truth and be saved, then all w/o exception would be saved.

In John 10, Jesus plainly stated He was the good Shepherd, and the Shepherd would lay down His life for the sheep. In fact, He stated it twice in vss 11 & 15. In John 17 He stated He prayed not for the world, but those the Father gave Him. He went on further to say He also prayed for those who would believe according to their words.

All will be saved because the all that He desires desires to save, He will save, and the devil can not pluck one of them out of His hand.


You need to do this to your "my bible"...


Because it's doing you no favors!!!!!

 

No, we claim that IF God actually intended the eath of Christ to be a sure payment for the sin debt of all sinners, and that if he intended to have all sinners repent and come to Christ, as you keep claiming, then unless all got saved, god failed, based upon YOUR theology regarding Jesus death was for all, and God desires all to be saved!

 

Three posts in a row, all from Calvinists, and all denying the post I addressed, Yeshua1's post #25. You have got to love them folks.

 

Hi Winman,

Why not address the issue, do we put ourselves in Christ or does God determine if we believe according to His requirement, and if He does, then He puts us in Christ.

The folks in Matthew Chapter 7 knew that had believed in Jesus, calling Him "Lord." But Jesus said "I never knew you."

No matter how often you push your "automatic" transmission, scripture says the idea is bogus. Not just in one or two verses, but over and over.
God baptizes us into Christ, The immersion is done by the Holy Spirit. We are set apart, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, in Christ.

For you to deny such a large body of scripture, starting with Romans 4:5 is without merit.

 

Calvinists post fiction after fiction [See Post# 25]. Now they [at least Yeshua1] claim God's plan to save each and every individual has failed. Then the Calvinist claims since God desires all men to be saved, his plan was to cause each and every person to come to faith. This particular Calvinist often posts views that do not reflect the published position of Calvinism, and here we have yet another example.

Calvinism claims Jesus did NOT become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world. But scripture, 1 John 2:2 says He did.

Calvinism claims God does not desire all men to be saved, but scripture says He does, 1 Timothy 2:4

Calvinism claims Jesus did not lay down His life as a ransom for all, but scripture says He did, 1 Timothy 2:9.

 

All Scripture Citations Are From The NIV

Propitiation does not mean what you say it means.

Don't you think that if John meant what you are claiming he would have written:"He is the propitiation for the sins of everyone in the world." ?

John was saying in effect that Christ is the propitiation and the propitiator for not only us Jews , but for His people --Gentiles, scattered all over the world. Look at Rev. 5:9;7:9;14:4 etc.

The beloved disciple also said in the Gospel of John: "...Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one." (John 11:51b-52)

You see how the references in 1 John 2 and John 11 fit together?

Hmm... my Bible says :"I want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes"

That verse has nothing to do with what you claim. Back to the drawing board you go Van.

 

You keep missing the key phrase that per YOUR own theology, IF God actually intended jesus to die for all sinners, and that his will was that all would repent and come to him to get saved, unless all got saved, God failed!

MY theology is that jesus died for the sake of the Elect, and all those in that group will be enabled by the Holy Spirit to come to jesus and get saved!

 

Propitiation means exactly what I said, it provides the means of salvation.

Note how Rippon fails to even present the non-Cal view accurately. They cannot even repeat truth accurately.

This attempt to make us the Jews, and the world, the Gentiles has been refuted and refuted and refuted. But the Calvinist just keep posting the disinformation and never address the rebuttal.

Here we see the old, this verse is like that verse and that verse is like this other verse, so it actually means what it does not say routine. I am reminded of the who is on first, what is on second and I do not know on third routine.

I see how 1 John 2:2 fits with 1 Timothy 2:6

I do see I referenced 1 Timothy 2:9 rather than 1 Timothy 2:6. My bad.

 

1) If the rich young ruler had been saved eternally, then Jesus would not have been sad.

2) Jesus does not save everyone, only everyone of those given to Him by His Father.

3) God's love for mankind is from everlasting, i.e. has no beginning.

4) Yes, when we do not understand scripture correctly our mistaken view does not fit with all scripture. That is why everyone should reject Calvinism which does not fit with scripture after scripture, such as 1 Timothy 2:4, 2:6, 2 Thess. 2:13, Romans 8:33, Romans 5:2 and so forth and so on.

 

You keep evading the truth, over and over and over again. Say I am playing tennis, and I desire to win. I hit a ball that is out. If I claim it was in, what have I won? Nothing. So when God desires all men to be saved, it means He desires them to be saved according to His purpose and plan, not according to Calvinism's mistaken view of His plan, i.e. by compulsion. You say if He does not cause everyone to be saved, He failed. But actually, if He did, He would have failed, because His plan was to save everyone who believes in Him.

 

More Vanism error that I need either a machetti or mop....