The Trinity, Opinions On This Explanation

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by CubeX, Jul 13, 2003.

  1. CubeX

    CubeX
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    Hello everyone, please give me your opinions on this explanation of the Trinity.

    God created all things, correct? Since God created all things, that means that He created physics, scientific laws, etc. God is also not ruled by His creation. So, God is not controlled by physics or laws. This gives a VERY explanational statement for the Trinity and how it is possible.

    Just take a second and try to imagine you not applying to ANY laws or physics. It's impossible, right?

    So, here's my created statement for the Trinity. I was kind of having a hard time with it.

    Let me know your opinions and such!

    Thanks!
    -CubeX
     
  2. John Wells

    John Wells
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    CubeX,

    Sorry, but I have a problem with your basic premise that God can arbitrarily assign laws of physics to His creation. I don't think God was concerned with the disciplines of physics and science when He said, "Let there be . . ." These disciplines (man-made) attempt to define what God has created. I submit the following for a more detailed explanation:

     
  3. CubeX

    CubeX
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    So you are saying that God created the universe with the scientific laws and physics that we know of today?

    So, so you believe that God created the scientific laws and physics that we have discovered and those we haven't?

    Also, it is not that God just assigned laws and such to certain things, He cretaed statements of them and, therefore, everything applies to them accept Him because He is the Creator of it all.

    -CubeX

    -CubeX
     
  4. John Wells

    John Wells
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    CubeX,

    No, I'm saying that God created the physical universe the way He created it. The "laws" of science and physics are man's crude attempt to explain how everything works that God created.

    There are a few “statements” in the Bible concerning how His creation works, but the Bible is not a science book. The “laws” you refer to, again, are man-made.

    To change the "laws" of physics would require the Creator to change how and what He created. God created "things" that we have not discovered and/or will never understand. There aren't "laws" until you understand a thing or process that a law can be applied to.

    For instance: Define a law about the human conscience that explains how atoms and chemicals create a conscience (sense of right and wrong that spawn feelings of guilt) that is part of the brain's function. I seriously doubt that the scientific community will ever discover where "conscience" comes from. That is why there is such wide dissention on the nature and makeup of the human conscience, but a rational person must admit that it exists. Anyone who has had the privilege of having and raising a child discovers two things: 1) You don’t have to teach a child “how to be bad” (born with a sinful nature according to the Bible), and you don’t have to teach them to express guilt/regret for their bad/sinful actions.

    As to the Trinity: The doctrine of the Trinity is only more or less a crude human attempt to come to terms with a divine reality that is beyond us. The doctrine points to a transcendent God who could yet simultaneously become a human being and then after the resurrection also indwell other human beings (that is, the Holy Spirit). He is a God great enough to rule the universe, caring enough to live a fully human life and intimate enough to live in each believer. This is the reality that the doctrine points to. This is the truth that John teaches. Try as we like, we will never understand this divine depth, yet we can still enjoy the reality of God being with us that the doctrine points to. Man’s folly leads us to doubt anything that we cannot define and grasp. Although the triune nature of God cannot be hammered smooth on any human anvil, be assured that we will see through the mirror clearly when one day we are face to face, in the presence of The Holy!
     
  5. CubeX

    CubeX
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    Ok, I understand what you are saying, but I think i didn't explain good enough.

    The scientific laws and physics, and etc. are just how humans define how things work. Now, they are man-discovered, but you can't discover them without their existance. I'm not saying God created the physics as we know them, but He created the way the universe worked. So, it is not essentially the man-defined things I am referring to, it is what He created in the beginning.

    Would you agree that nothing happens without a reason. That everything works together by God's will and how He already had it planned out. I'm kind of looking at it through a programmer's eyes for an example for you. The program has nothing in it at its beginning, but, as you slowly add certain objects, you have to create laws and definement for them to do what is supposed to be done. That is the only way of explaining it I can think of. I'm sry I can't be any more specific.

    -CubeX
     
  6. Paul of Eugene

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    Well, I think you're on track in pointing out that God is way beyond our own ability to figure Him out. And that would include the nature of the trinity, of course. But your argument to persuade us of the ineffibility of God really seems to have nothing to do with the Trinity per se . . . so it's not a particularly trinitarian statement, as advertised . . .

    Which is more an opinion about style than a criticism of what you said.
     
  7. jubilant

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    [​IMG] Mrk 1:10 tells us this ....... And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him
    All three persons of the Godhead are in manifestation at once: (1) the voice of the Father, (2) the Son in His physical body, and (3) the Holy Spirit in the shape of a dove. This shows that the three persons of the Trinity are distinct from each other, and yet, scripture reveals that They are one (1 Jn. 5:7). The Greek word for "one" in 1 John 5:7 is "heis" and signifies a single one to the exclusion of others, as well as united in purpose. This same Greek word is used in 1 Timothy 2:5, in which case it clearly means more than sameness of purpose.

    The Trinity is first suggested in Genesis 1:26 by God saying, "Let us . . . ." One God spoke in the plural. Scripture has abundant references to the Father as God (Exa. 1 Cor. 8:6). Jesus is called God (Isa. 9:6; Jn. 1:1; 20:28; 1 Tim 3:16; Heb. 1:8). The Holy Ghost is called God (Acts 5:3-4). Yet one of the great statements of the Old Testament from Deuteronomy 6:4 says that, "The Lord our God is one Lord." We do not have three Gods, but one God, clearly identifiable as three persons. This is a great mystery, which we do not have any adequate explanation for. Scriptures reveal the truth of the Trinity but make no attempt to explain it. We simply accept this revelation as it is, until we know all things, even as we are known (1 Cor. 13:12).
    Sure hopes this helps you ...... [​IMG]
     
  8. CubeX

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    Well, you see, the first time I used this argument, it was for the Trinity. From studying it even further the last few days, I've realized that the Trinity is not really a main focus point of this all. It is much bigger than that. I am doing some VERY in-depth research about it, I'll post it when I complete the first paper.

    Also, this topic can be closed for now.

    God-bless,
    -CubeX
     
  9. npetreley

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    Here's how I tend to think of the problem of God existing outside the limitations of human perception and knowledge:

    Imagine people live in a two-dimensional world that consists of a sheet of paper rolled up like a cylinder, like a tin can with no lids. (Yes, I know paper has thickness so is actually 3 dimensions, but this is a thought exercise.)

    The people live in 2 dimensions on the paper and that's all they know. They speculate on other dimensions but they have never experienced them. Whatever exists as "real" to them does so only above, in front, behind or below them, since they have no perception of what exists on either side.

    Now let's say I poke my finger all the way through the paper cylinder, so that it pokes through holes in two places in the cylinder (in the tin can example, it would go all the way through the whole can -- not just one side).

    To the people in 2-D land, it will look like my finger exists in two places at once, because they can only see those places where my finger intersects the paper. No doubt they'd sit around and speculate wild theories on how it was possible for me to exist in two places at once - but for me it's utter simplicity.
     
  10. CubeX

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    Well, since no one thinks that the way I explained it is correct, please feel free to express your opinions.

    Thanks! Just give your explanation, no illustrations unless you absolutely need to!

    Thanks again!
    -CubeX
     
  11. CubeX

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    I found one thing that seems to be bothering me about this view finally! :D And that thing is about the nature of God. This view seems to point out a contradiction with the Nature of God.

    -CubeX
     

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