The Trinity

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Gina B, Jun 29, 2001.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    When did the word Trinity come into use and who started it?
    Gina
     
  2. DocCas

    DocCas
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    The first time the word "Trinity" was used in print which has survived to this day, to the best of my knowledge, was in 168 AD by Theophilus, a Bishop (Pastor) in Antioch, who used the word (Greek: trinidos) in his letter to Autolycus.

    In 177 AD, Athenagoras wrote in his "Apologia" of "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit."

    In 215 AD, Tertullian, writing in his "Adversus Praxean" said, "And so the connection of the Father, and the Son, and of the Paraclete makes three cohering entities, one cohering from the other, which three are one entity, not one person. Just as it is said "I and the Father are one entity" refers to the unity of their substance, not the oneness of their number." [​IMG]

    [ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]
     
  3. Gina B

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    Is there somewhere in the Bible where it says the Holy Spirit is also one with the Father and Son? Or is it just the rational conclusion?
    Gina
     
  4. HankD

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    The Holy Sprit...

    That depends Gina.

    Do you accept I John 5:7 as Scripture?

    KJV 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    HankD
     
  5. Gina B

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    That would be what I was looking for. And yes, I do. Thanks.
    Gina
     
  6. firedome

    firedome
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    Gina,
    May I refer you to this portion of God's Word
    Rev. 1:4a,b
    John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come;
    (God The Father)
    Rev. 1:4c
    and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
    (God The Holy Spirit)
    Rev. 1:5
    And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
    (God The Son)
    I feel this shows a very distinct definition and picture of the Trinity.
     
  7. Gina B

    Gina B
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    firedome, awesome. I totally agree.
    Gina
     
  8. Gina B

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    Guess I should add that I do believe in the trinity, I just always took it for granted and never thought to question it.
    I love this board!
    It let's me ask questions and get answers right away. Before I would start questioning things and try to study them, and half the time I would get lost and start losing faith because I had a hard time getting answers on my own. We have a seminary here, and I used to use their library a lot, but they kicked me out. :(
    So thanks, everyone!
    Gina
    PS. They didn't ban me, it was just that my daughter got a paper cut and thought the world ended, and although they'd always been perfect until that day they asked us to leave. I'd sneak back, but my girls are so amazingly beautiful we get recognized everywhere! :D
     
  9. MARANATHA2000

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    Gina

    If you look at the book of GEN. I believe the TRINITY is found there. GOD said " lets make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness". Whom was GOD talking to? I believe HE was talking to the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT. GOD created man in HIS image , having a body, soul, and a spirit. Our body is our physical aspect. Our soul is our consciousness, the part of us that sees, hears , and thinks. Our spirit is the part of us that communicates with GOD. All three parts are what makes you a man or a woman. We cannot seperate our three essences from our body's shell, as GOD can, except upon death. Here the soul and spirit leave the body.

    GOD'S image has three essences or parts. GOD has a physical body. This physical body is the SON. This body appeared to some of the O.T. saints. The physical body of GOD was placed in the womb of Mary to be born a man, to die for the sins of the world. And is now at the right hand of the FATHER. The SOUL of GOD is the FATHER. This essence of GOD is setting on the throne of heaven. The spirit of GOD is the HOLY SPIRIT and HE exist everywhere and in every instant of time. GOD is not bound to the shell of HIS body as we are. All three of HIS essences , THE FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT exist as one GOD in three essences.PEACE, but not yet.


    " THE LORD COMETH "
     
  10. Gina B

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    Maranatha, thanks for your reply. I pretty much believe in it the same way, except I do believe that the more you mature in Christ the more distinct these three characteristics become in us.
    I really appreciate your good explanation. It put into words how I think about it, and brought back a memory of why and how I believe in it that way. (I've had some memory loss problems and something in the way you worded that jolted me) It's all coming back to me as I'm sitting here now and I'm in tears because it's such an awesome thing to remember!
    Gina
     
  11. MARANATHA2000

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    GINA

    May GOD BLESS YOU. PEACE, but not yet


    " THE LORD COMETH "
     
  12. Ed

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    When did the word Trinity come into use and who started it?
    Gina
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Gina,
    If you want to get a detailed look at the Trinity, I have a study on my website at http://www.exchangedlife.com/Acrobat/trinity.pdf

    I am not quite done with it yet, but you are welcomed to get a preview. This study looks at the early church history, what the church fathers believed and the Trinity in the Old and New Testaments. It is an adobe file so you will need the Acrobat reader to view it.
    The document is 400k.

    Exchanged Life Outreach

    [ August 26, 2001: Message edited by: Ed ]
     
  13. Gina B

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    Thank you Ed. I'll check it out.
    Gina
     
  14. John Wells

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    The doctrine points to a transcendent God who could yet simultaneously become a human being and then after the resurrection also indwell other human beings (that is, the Holy Spirit). He is a God great enough to rule the universe, caring enough to live a fully human life and intimate enough to live in each believer. This is the reality that the doctrine points to.
     
  15. Ed

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    When did the word Trinity come into use and who started it?
    Gina
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have a study on the Trinity online now at http://www.exchangedlife.com/Sermons/topical/trinity/trinity_menu.shtml . The specific answer is located at http://www.exchangedlife.com/Sermons/topical/trinity/church_believed.shtml .

    This study goes into the history, heretics, beliefs of the early church fathers and the Trinity in the Old and New Testaments.

    Exchanged Life Outreach
     
  16. Helen

    Helen
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    I have been challenged about the Trinity a number of times due to my participation on a website specializing in cults. I finally wrote up a short essay and a friend posted it on his website. If one looks at Jesus' last discourse (John 14-17), He is quite positive about the Person of the Holy Spirit being God, as He also is.

    This short piece is halfway down here: http://www.ldolphin.org/Names.html

    I then expanded it to respond to a girl who was getting involved with the JW's. Here is the main body of the letter I wrote her about two years ago:


    The concept of the Trinity is present from the opening verse of the Bible,
    actually. The word "God" in Genesis 1:1 is "elohim." This is not a simple
    plural of the word 'god.' The plural of that word, which means 'two,' is
    "eloh." "Elohim" means "three or more."

    In Deuteronomy 6:4, we have the resounding, "Hear O Israel, the LORD our
    God, the LORD is one!"

    "God" is, there again, "Elohim." What is also interesting is that the last
    word of that, the word "one" is the word "echad." "Echad" means unity in
    plurality. It is the same word used regarding marriage in Genesis. 2:24,
    when a man is to leave his mother and father and become one with his wife.
    The word which is NOT used there to mean "one" is "yachid." "Yachid" means a
    unique singularity.

    Now go to Isaiah 9 -- the famous Christmas verse:

    "For unto us a child is born
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor,
    Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father,
    Prince of Peace."

    Now go to Isaiah 44:6 --

    "This is what the LORD says -- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD
    Almighty:
    I am the first and I am the last;
    Apart from me there is no God."

    Please cross reference this with Jesus' words to John in Revelation
    1:17-18 -- "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living
    One. I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever."

    Check the Gospel of John, opening sentences, opening chapter:

    "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was
    God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made;
    without him nothing was made that has been made. [Remember Genesis 1:1 --
    "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.:] .... The Word
    became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the
    glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and
    truth."

    Please note also that the absolutely correct translation of the Hebrew is
    "...and God was the Word," - I urge you to look it up.

    John 1 is one of the rather famous areas the JW's have mistranslated,
    against all established Greek grammar...

    And remember Jesus words' at the end of Matthew: "...baptizing them in the
    name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit...." and, again,
    Jesus' words defining eternal life in John 17:3 clearly equate Him with the
    Father.

    And so, although we may not understand the Trinity with our human minds very
    well, the doctrine of the Trinity is present in the Bible from the first.
    Jesus is God Himself in the flesh, and it was because this was His very
    claim that the Pharisees were so outraged and attempted several times to
    stone Him. There are two Greek words which mean "I am." The first is "ego"
    which means "I am " with the emphasis on the "I". The second is "eimi",
    which also means "I am" with the emphasis on the "am." John records three
    times when Jesus used the double phrase (which is very poor Greek grammar,
    as the two words are never used together!) "Ego eimi", meaning "I am I AM"
    or "I am [the] I AM:" when He identified Himself to the woman at the well
    in John 4:26, in John 8:24, when responding to the Pharisaical challenge,
    and when He identified Himself to the Pharisees in John 8:58 (at which time
    the Pharisees picked up rocks to stone Him for the blasphemy of using God's
    name -- they thought in vain). In John 10:31-33, we see the incident where
    the Pharisees again want to stone him and Jesus asks them why:

    "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these
    do you stone me?"
    "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for
    blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

    So what the Jehovah's Witnesses and the encyclopedias do not understand
    today, the Pharisees understood quite clearly: Jesus claimed to be God.

    In John 14-17 we have the famous last discourse of our Lord. In John 14:16,
    Jesus promises "another" counselor to be with the disciples forever. He
    identifies this Counselor as the Holy Spirit. The interesting thing here is
    the word He chose for "another." Again, there are two Greek words for Him
    to choose from. One is "allos", meaning "exactly alike in every detail."
    The other is "heteros" meaning "a different other". The first -- allos --
    would be used if you broke a vase at someone's house and you promised to buy
    the owner another vase exactly like the first as a replacement. The
    second -- heteros -- would be used if you had a wonderful vacation with your
    family and you promised yourselves another vacation together next year.
    When Jesus referred to "another" Counselor, the word He used was "allos."
    He was one Counselor, but He would send "another" -- allos -- one just like
    Him, for the disciples. This is re-affirmed when Jesus refers to the Holy
    Spirit as "the Spirit of Truth" in John 16:13. Jesus had identified Himself
    as "the truth" in John 14:6. The Spirit is also identified as being present
    in Genesis 1:2 -- right there in the beginning.

    We may have invented the word "Trinity" somewhere along the line to try to
    put a name to this concept, but the reality of the Father, Son, and Holy
    Spirit all being the One God (which is exactly what the Shema says), is
    present from the beginning to the end of the Bible. One way in which you
    can check this for yourself is by using a good Concordance. You will find
    several available for free, online, here: http://www.intervis.force9.co.uk/ctsa/sword.htm or here: http://members.home.net/bibleric/ or even here: http://home.fireplug.net/~rshand/reflections/messiah/lookup.html for the
    King James; and a very extensive Bible research webpage here: http://www.alaska.net/~saai/cs/codex.html. The SDA's actually put out one
    that is quite easy to use if you are just checking Bible verses or words
    themselves here: http://www.tagnet.org/adventist.fm/misc/searchb.htm You
    can find a number of good translations for free, which you can check for
    yourself here: http://bible.gospelcom.net/
     
  17. Barnabas H.

    Barnabas H.
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    Nice post Helen! Enjoyed reading it. [​IMG]

    However, I couldn't open three of the urls. I got the following answers:
    - members.home.net..... not in service
    - home.fireplug.net.... The page cannot be found
    - alaska.net...... The page cannot be found
     
  18. Helen

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    Thanks. I'll check them out this evening and edit both my own stuff and the post here.
     

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