The True Church from the Bible

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by faith in the south, May 13, 2006.

  1. faith in the south

    faith in the south
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    Do we agree that up to the Nicean Council, the True Church of the Bible was only one, and then divisions came up?
    Or we must say the true Church was founded by Martin Luther, or its the Baptist, or its the new Church of whatever...
     
  2. mcneely

    mcneely
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    I believe that the Church has been sort of an evolutionary process. When The Church begins to fall away from scripture, we are brought back, and at the same time, brought closer to being conformed to the ideas of Christ. Even though there are countless denomonations and Christian faiths, it is our fundamental beliefs that keep us unified as THE CHURCH.

    Although I don't believe the Catholic Church is a cult, I do believe that they fell away from the Scripture and Christ very early. They hated and persecuted Jews, and began to incorporate elements of worship that were unscriptural on the premise of Apostolic leadership and Tradition (basically, if the Bible doesen't say it's wrong then it's right, meaning you could make dogma out of flying in space with a monkey as a Christian practice). Hence the reformation, which did just that. reform the faith. Strip down all the extra fat, and go back to what Christ ACTUALLY founded. (which isn't an institution Lutheran, Methodist, blah blah).

    ---Justin
     
  3. JackRUS

    JackRUS
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    No. There were divisions mentioned in 1 Cor. 3:1-5, and in Acts 15:5-31 and Galatians where the leaders of the church had to address Judaism being injected in the church.

    One might also look to Paul's warning in Acts 20:28-31.
     
  4. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    The true Church in these last days, characteristics are given in the bok of Revelation:


    "woman" represents the church...Jer:6:2: I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.


    they will keep the commandments OF GOD

    Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God , and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


    They will have the Testimony of Jesus, which is the Spirit of Prophesy:

    Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Rv:19:10: And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy .


    in other words they will keep all the commandments of God INCLUDING the Sabbath and they will have the gift of Prophecy given to their church.
     
  5. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
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  6. Jacob Dahlen

    Jacob Dahlen
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    There is only one ture church and that is the Old-Rite Orthodox Church.
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    The true church in NT days was more-or-less agreed upon the leadership of the Jewish council in Acts 15 - the Apostles were all Jews and the church was united under the Apostles.

    We know that doctrinal errors were creeping in from things like the gospel of Judas in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. So false teaching and revisionist histories - even lying about authorship started in the early church almost immediately after the first century BC.

    Paul states in Acts 20 that HE KNEW that doctrinal error would come in immediately and that it would come people WITHIN the church.

    However you make a good point about "exactly when" did the church engage in so much error as a corporate group that only the small dissenting groups were holding to truth.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. wopik

    wopik
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    It is abundantly clear that the Jerusalem Church never gave up Sabbath observance during the New Testament era.

    On Paul's last visit to Jerusalem (about 58-60 A.D.), James and all the elders of the Church told Paul how the thousands of converted Jews "are all zealous ["ardent upholders," Moffatt] of the law" (Acts 21:20).

    In such an environment, it is inconceivable that the cherished and holy Sabbath would no longer be kept.


    "....the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith" (Acts 6:7).


    We can be absolutely sure that the Jerusalem Church kept the Sabbath. James and the others had favor with the people — even priests obeyed the faith (Acts 2:47; 6:7).


    This would have been utterly impossible if the Church had been meeting on Sunday (or any other day) and breaking the Sabbath. If that had been the case, it would have been mentioned as a major accusation and problem for the Church.


    -
     
  9. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
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    There may have been some modifications in the gentile churches away from Jerusalem, though...

    Though such a strong habit would have been 'difficult' to break. [​IMG]

    In one case, though Acts 19:9 could probably be used for either side of the argument...

    Acts 19:9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

    So, they got basically thrown out of the Synagog and went to the Lecture Hall of Tyrannus...

    What we don't know is what days this 'hall' was open to their use? Weekdays? Saturday? Sunday?

    Just what was the custom for having school then?

    Which days of the week?

    In a secular society would the school calendar be influenced by pagan rituals neccesitating the church meeting on, say Sunday?

    Paul's Custom was to first meet with the Jewish Community in the Synagog that would require a Sabbath meeting...

    The word Sabbath appears some 10 times in the KJV betweem Acts and Jude...

    Nine times in Acts referring to Pauls customs...

    And, only once in the Epistles.

    Colosians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    So, it would appear to me that The Sabbath was not a priority issue for the Gentile Church to be taught on...

    Should it be a priority issue for us?

    Also, there are two references to meeting or doing religious Duties on the First day of the Week...

    Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    But, note it appears that when Paul met on the First day of the week he was Preaching primarily to Gentiles...

    And, I believe every case where Sabbath is mentioned in Acts the Jewish Church is the primary component...

    1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

    Just grist for the mill folks... :D

    SMM
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let EACH one of you lay by himSELF in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. [/quote]

    Interesting that they were to do this on "week-day-ONE" instead of "The Lord's DAY".

    When the day is given a Holy sanctified use in the NT - it is referred to by its name of Honor for example "Sabbath".

    Notice also - that each one lays by himself -- it is a private system of "savings" at the START of the week.

    How "instructive".

    Now how about the weekly worship service where scripture is read?

    In Acts 15 we see it "From Sabbath to Sabbath MOSES is being read in the Synagogues".

    In Acts 13 we see "Sabbath after Sabbath" worship services with scripture read to gentiles.

    In Acts 17 the same thing happens at another town that is being evangelized.

    How "instructive".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    ummmmmmmmmmm just a thought but if the Jews were causing so much trouble over trying to keep the people into getting circumcised, and doing all the ceremonial laws and Paul was instructing them not to be that way I WILL JUST BET that there would of been a HUGE ruckus about it if Paul and them had decided to start keeping the Sabbath on Sunday... and we would read about that in the New Testament.. dont ya think??
     
  12. mcneely

    mcneely
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    Jacob, the grown-ups are talking.

    ---Justin
     
  13. nate

    nate
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    Really I think it's safe to say the Church was undivided and one until A.D. 451 (the Council of Chalcedon.) When the there was some confusion about terminology and the Oriental Orthodox broke away. Until then anyone that broke away from main christendom and the Church were heretics.
     
  14. Born Again Catholic

    Born Again Catholic
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    The church at Nicea was Catholic.

    What is interesting is that even though the Oriental Orthodox broke a way from the Catholic Church in 451 ad, there faith is still so similar to Catholics reunufication is a real possibilty very soon and will probably happen before a reunion with the eastern Orthodox churches who broke away in 1052. Also shows that Church teaching has been consistent from the beginning whereas protestant faiths tend to change their beliefs every 1 to 2 generations.
     
  15. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
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    What people avoid discussing is sometimes as important as what they discuss :D

    SMM
     
  16. BobRyan

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    Acts 13 we have BOTH Jews AND Gentiles attending Bible study and worship services. But what is really neat is that the JEWs REJECT it - and the gentiles ASK FOR MORE. So what happens? The GENTILES wait until THE NEXT SABBATH to hear more!!

    Wait a minute!! If the Jews are REJECTING truth and the Gentiles ACCEPTING truth in Acts 13 WHY not have ANOTHER Bible lesson the NEXT day - on "week-day-one" as the NT calls it?

    Why keep having it on Christ the Creator's memorial of Creation - His own Seventh-day Sabbath - the LORD's Day?

    Why not go with "week-day-one" since that is immediately following!
     
  17. BobRyan

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    Basically you see a number of "Sabbath after Sabbath" sequence mentioned AS SUCH in the NT - as well as "regularly or customarily ON Sabbath" topics mentioned in the NT specific to Bible study.

    But not ONE of these Bible study events is listed in a Week-day-one AFTER week-day-one sequence!!

    What an odd way for NT writers to INTRODUCE the NEW week-day-one worship service transition away from Sabbath!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. wopik

    wopik
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    BobRyan
    ??? so now you don't think the first day of the week is the Lord's Day ?


    what am i missing here ?
     
  19. JackRUS

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    Hey! You know what, that's the same thing Joseph Smith said about the Mormon Church. Go figure. :rolleyes:
     
  20. JackRUS

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    Haven't you ever read Acts 15:4-31? The Church had it's first synod over just that. (But they didn't call it a ruckus officially, so you may be right :D )
     

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