The Truth about the RCC

The questions can be outlined as:

1) Do Catholic admit that their ancestors tortured and killed the people by condemning them as Heretics?

2) Do they still claim that the Heretics can be tortured and slaughtered.

3) The previous Pope is said to have confessed the repentence on the past history of such killings, but how many RC understand what such repentance means

4) How many RC know about the tragic masacres caused by RCC, and how much they know about it.

5) What if the doctrines of RCC are found to be heresies, would they be ready to accept any torturing and killings?

6) Can we examine the heresies of RCC such as Idolatry, Mary Worship, Prayer to the Dead, Papacy, Infant Baptism, Transubstantiation, Mass, Clergy system, Compulsory celibacy, Indulgence, Purgatory etc?
If they are found to be Heresies, judged by God, are they ready to accept such torturing and killing themselves?

 

I know that the final attack on Roman Catholicism, when all else fails, is the Inquisition. I’ve used such tactics as a fundamentalist myself.

Here’s the deal. I’m not going to defend the Churches actions or whitewash the issue. I don’t fear that the facts about the Inquisition might ‘prove’ the illegitimacy of the Catholic Church. St. Paul and Christ Himself warned us that there would be a few ravenous wolves among Church leaders (Acts 20:29; Mat. 7:15).

For the anti-Catholic it’s often about statistics…how many perished…one number I’ve seen is 95 million…that’s absurd, due to the fact that the population in the areas affected by the Inquisition didn’t approach 95 million until modern times. The Inquisition didn’t exist in Northern Europe, Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, or England. Mainly the Inquisition took place in Southern France, Italy, Spain and a few parts of the Holy Roman Empire. In other words arguing about statistics is a waste of time.

Further more, pagans killed far more Christians than all the different Inquisitions and Reformation acts combined.

All these different sects that Eliyahu likes to bring up that the Catholic Church persecuted and claim to be the roots of today’s ‘bible Christians’ are certainly not the same as modern day Fundamentalism, and Fundamentalist sympathy for these destructive belief systems is sadly misplaced.

The real point others try to make with these type posts is to try and prove that some thing as dreadful as the Inquisition couldn’t have been associated with a divinely established Church.

It’s easy when I read the Old Testament, to see how those who led the Inquisitions could have thought at the time, that their actions were justified. The Bible itself records instances where God commanded that formal, legal inquiries or inquisitions, be carried out to expose secret believers in false religions. See Deut 17:2-5.

It’s also clear from Deut. 13:6-11, that there were some Israelites who posed as believers in and keepers of the covenant with Yahweh, while inwardly they didn’t believe and secretly practiced false religions and even tried to spread them. Therefore, in order to protect the kingdom, from such hidden heresy, these secret practitioners had to be rooted out and expelled. Even these directives from The LORD applied to whole cities that had turned away from the true religion (Deut. 13:12-18). And I could go on, but you get the picture.

Even the first Protestants also tried to root out and punish those they regarded as heretic. Luther and Calvin both endorsed the right of the state to protect society by purging false religions. Look at Calvin, he not only banished from Geneva those who didn’t share his views, he also permitted and in some cases ordered others to be executed for ‘heresy’, see Jacques Gouet, and Michael Servetus. Both English and Irish Catholics were put to death by refusing to become Catholic. Tensions are still evident in Ireland and England today…hence the U2 song ‘Where the Streets Have No Name’, where you are identified ‘Protestant’ or ‘Catholic’ by the street you live on.

This is the point; again I’m not going to defend either side for their actions, when both parties easily understood the Bible to require the use of penal sanctions to root out false religions from Christian society.

 

1. The figures like 95 million may be the sum of the total period thru the Dark Ages, and therefore it can be in similitude. Nobody knows the exact figure except God, but it may give some understanding about the historical facts.

2. Your apologetics confess very welll the view of RCC claiming that Heresies should be put to death according to the OT commandments.
There are some rules which cannot be applied to the Gentile World, to the New Testament society. Those are that animals don't have to be killed as Jesus finished the sacrifice. Another thing is that nobody should be killed because of their belief. Has Paul ever killed anyone because of the Heresy? ONly before Paul was saved while he was a Pharisee, he persecuted and handed over the Christian believers to be killed.
Read Titus 4:10
A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition, reject!

RCC replace this Reject with Kill, misunderstanding that OT commandments should be in effect in this NT era.

Why is there such difference between OT and NT?

In NT the Gentiles were never given any commandments like 10 commandments. and God knows that the Jewish Law didn't work even though the Israelites were chosen people with many miracles. Therefore the Law of the Holy spirit working in NT era is definitely different from OT law. However, stupidly RCC and Reformers like Calvin and Luther applied such OT principle to the people of NT.

In NT the greatest Law is the Love. However, RCC never showed such love to the people who opposed to their doctrines. If I had lived the Medieval era, I would have been killed because I would have opposed to the Idolatry, Purgatory, Infant Baptism etc.

3. One of the great misunderstanding by RCC and Calvin was that they didn't realize they didn't live in the era OLd Testament but in the NT era.
What RCC did in the past killing the people was very similar to what Paul did when he was not converted, before he became a true Christian believer. This means that RCC is the congregation of the unbelievers.

Even today, many RCC people do not realize today is the era of NT and Jesus finished all the sacrifice already at the Cross. They still apply the killings of OT to the Heretics as they advocate such behaviors.
This means that RCC will repeat the Killing Spree again whenever the chances are coming. RCC is making a great preparation for the next Great Tribulation now.

At the moment, they are quiet and healing their wounds caused by the previous bad history. Time may heal their wounds for human eyes and many people will follow them as they run the Broad-Way thru wide gate ( Mt 7:13-14)

 

Please, this is nothing more than Dave Hunt's words. :laugh: Even as a Fundamentalist, we were never taught that the RCC was going to be were the anti-Christ comes out of.

If history repeats itself, it’ll be the RCC that’ll defend Christianity with its life. Ricky Skaggs the Blue Grass singer/song writer has a CD called ‘Soldiers of the Cross’. It’s dedicated to the likes of The Knights of St. John and The Knights of Malta who under overwhelming odds were Europe’s last defense against the Turks and kept Christianity from being swept away from Europe and replaced with Islam. Oh by the way, those Knights were Catholic. So if it weren’t for the Catholics, we’d more than likely be worshipping Allah today?

What’s the major religion where Paul once had his missionary travels?

So if I had to bet money on whose making preparations for the “next” Great Tribulation, it’ll be Islam, whose itching to convert us all to Allah anyway.

In addition, when was the first Great Tribulation?
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I bought some of his books but haven't read any of them yet, but I believe he shares many of the same views with me as he is another so-called PB.

None of Jewish leaders such as High priests and elders knew that they were killing Messiah when they killed Jesus.

But RCC killed the people just because they were doing the work of God like this:

John 16:
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

I don't know those guys. But the True believers like Bogomils and Paulicians were the shield even for the RCC, when RCC killed Bogomils and Paulicians, they had to confront the Turks for themselves. It is nonsense that RCC protected the Europe against Islam by killing the Christians after they condemned them as Heretics. RCC should have taught such tactics to Jesus so that He could have taught it in the Gospel!

I don't what is your question exactly, but my understanding is that there were many kinds of paganism and some of them accepted the Christian truth, but more number of pagans perverted the Christianity for their own interests.

Bible tells us who they are.
Revelation 17:4-7
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10

There are several hints on the Babylon:

1) Great Babylon, the Mother of Harlots is an abomination of Idolatry( Bdelygmaton).

2) drank Blood of the Witnesses of Jesus

3) It sits on the seven hills

4) It has connections with the Kings of the nations.



- Vatican has been the representative religion of Idolatry in the west while BUddhism has been the representative in the east Asia.

- BUddhism didn't kill many Christians as RCC did, Islam killed many Christians but may be far less than RCC did.

- Islam doesn't sit on the seven hills, Vatican sits on the seven hills in Rome

- Islam doesn't have many connections with the leaders of the world.
Most of the world leaders are Catholic, Canadian PM's were Catholic, most of the US presidents after WWII are having good relationship with Vatican, most of South American presidents, most of EU leaders are Catholic or Pro-Catholic, African countries and Asian countries have the diplomatic relationship with Vatican, because RCC is a religion but also a state.

- RCC doctrines are not supported by the Bible scripture, but their natures are close to the paganism.

- RCC is trying to unite all the religions of the world, including Islam thru Fatima and Oslo agreement, including Buddhism in Asia, including Presbyterian, Methodists, COE, Lutheran, Greek Orthodox, thru Ecumenical etc.

- True believers ( who oppose many RCC doctrines like Purgatory, Infant Baptism, Theotokos) will not join the UNITED religion under RCC. Then these will be condemned as Heretics. They will suffer a lot due to the United Catholic and this will be the Great Tribulation.

However, the True Believers will win over the Great Harlot ! as KIng of Kings will come again, and the followers of the Great Harlot will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

The important thing by which we can recognize who will be the Harlot who will drink the Blood of believers is whether anyone still believe that one Religion can torture and kill any people if they find them as Heretics.

For example, I oppose Theotokos, Idol making and Idol worshipping, Purgatory, Infant Baptism, Papacy, Transubstantiation, even Ecumenical. Then I am sure that RCC will condemn me as a Heretic, then they still believe that they can torture and kill me because I am found a Heretic.
Can we have not the right to live as a heretic without suffering the torture and persecution ? RCC have not allowed it and do not change this habit even today.

RCC has many organization to proceed with their agenda, such as Jesuit, Opus Dei, Dominic, etc. Can we find such organization in the Bible?
Though we have to pass thru lots of, lots of persecutions, we will win over them as God is our defender!

 

Good to link with Jn 19:11

 

With the exception of Agnus Dei, would the debaters here kindly visit a Muslim forum and explain to them that the Crusaders were Catholics, not Christians?

Thank you.
:thumbs:

 

I don't think RCc will sincerely admit what they did with Inquisitions etc. they will never repent on what they did in the past.
If they repent wholeheartedly, they should declare the decompositon of the whole RCC, which will never happen.
This will go until the end times when Jesus Christ comes again!

 

Where is it?

 

Catholics

Much of the Anti-Catholic feeling's espoused by American Protestants come from books such as "Fox's book Of Martyrs", The Two Babylon's, Babylon Mystery Religion etc.etc.". These are polemics, not absolute fact. We were all raised in a Protestant country. Learning the truth about Catholic's and history is comparable to someone being raised in an Arab country and discerning the truth of being Jewish or Christian. What truth can a Palestinian child tell you of Christianity?? Chances are he can't as he's been educated and taught by the use of hate literature, polemics, half truths etc.etc. Sorry to say it but much of what we Protestant's "know" simply isn't so. Christians killing Christians was not all one sided. Many Catholics were killed (perhaps as many as the Inquisitition, also the numbers are greatly in dispute), lands and fortunes seized, Priest burnt at the stake, etc. etc. The history of Christianity is not entirely Catholics persecuting and killing Protestants. Look at Irish history. The T-shirt with the military slogan "Kill them all, let God sort them" is a rewording of a historical event. A Protestant burning a church containing hundreds of men. women, and children. When told many were innocent, some not even Catholic, he instructed his Protestant soldiers to " kill them all, God knows his own". That's why the Orange day Parade is violent to this day in Ireland. Did anyone teach you these type of Protestant butcheries? It might be a good thing to read the Catholic perspective of some of these events. By the way I'm Baptist and much to my shame have actually preached anti-Catholic sermons. I repent deeply and bitterly. My only excuse is I taught, as I was taught. Anyone would be wise to step outside the box, when teaching others. I don't think God was very pleased, nor honored by some of the things I've taught. God is not in a box, or in a denomination. Neither is history. All these past Christian events must be looked at in the context of the time.

 

I don't advocate Protestants. There may be 3 groups in this discussion.

The Biggest group, RCC, Then Reformers ( Protestants), then True Christians.

Many RCC may have been killed while they were killing millions of Indians and raping their women.

Here are the sites for Irish masacres:

http://www.scotchirish.net/1641.php4

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/plantation/planters/es10.shtml

BBC might have been wrong with groundless history?

RCC still maintain the stance that Heretics can be ( or should be) killed. This is important.

 

Catholics

I wouldn't put the death of the South American Indians at the feet of the Catholic Church as much as I would at the feet of greed and carnality. We Protestants did a pretty good number on our native Indian population without too much Catholic help. As did the Australians on the Aborigines. Perhaps some of these societies were so evil that God removed them out of his sight. Mel Gibson's movie (though perhaps not accurate) portrays them as pretty bad neighbors. Some that lived then felt so. The point I wanted to make was there is enough evil deeds to go around. It's not just a Catholic thing. It's a human thing. As for Catholics still believing that some should be held accountable for what they preach/teach. I suspect God does and at times I do too. Those poor folk that followed Jim Jones south may have been better off if he had perished earlier (not to speak of Joseph Smith). As I grow older I feel that many words of preachers will follow them into the after life and an account given. Personally I believe there are entire television networks dedicated to heresy (and at times I think the world might be better off if they ceased to broadcast). I also feel many televangelist are making merchandise of naive, goodly intentioned people, trying to follow a calling from God. I personally have known 3 Apostles in my life and they were not Catholic. At least they claimed to be apostles ( I felt awful for those that followed them and still do). They thought they were Apostles but I'm not sure God did. There's Bishops everywhere, and Prophets too numerous to count. The Catholic body of the Magisterium might not be a bad thing in the Protestant world come to think of it. Thankfully God understands all these things, as I don't. In some way not so savory people are used to produce Christians in spite of themselves.