The Unbeliever

Mark, you said, "According to God's Holy Bible, every unbeliever:" Then your nine points. By what I believe, everyone who still has the breath of life has a chance to become a believer; only after death is that chance gone. It is my understanding that those that adhere to Calvinism say that only the elect will be saved and the non-elect WILL be lost.
This person is saved because God chooses him to be, this person is lost because God chooses him to be lost, and there is nothing those people can do to change their state. That is what I must totally reject. The sovereign Lord has shown again and again throuhgout His Word that he leaves to man a choice on this matter.
Most disturbing is the contention of Calvanites that we who reject Calvinism regard God as less than sovereign, and man is in charge. That is nonsense. Man cannot save himself, only faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus can do that.
God has put before us a choice, of life and death, receive His Son or reject Him, to "Choose this day whom ye will serve."
God made man a living soul, one with freewill, He did not make puppets.

 

They coincide. Those were some excellent proof texts for Total Inability Mark and I appreciate you sharing them with us! Please read those verses you posted (especially John 3:36) a little more closely. Notice that the believers are not condemned and the unbelievers are. That's the summation of Calvinism: Elect (believers) and non-elect (unbelievers). Simple.

God bless.

Daniel Allen
www.spurgeon.us

 

AMEN, DAN, That is the simple truth!!Dont ever stop telling it!!

 

whetstone,

Yes, my friend keep perpetuating the lie. The Devil and Christ are busy taking the non-elect one on each each arm--escorting them to the gates of Hell at the hour of death. It sure is intriguing how they apparently work together against those unfortunate predestined non-elect ones.

Well, to be fair with Calvinism the Devil may be a little more busy because it is his intent to place all of us sinners in the Lake of Fire but he found out that we Arminians have a volition--a free will. Because of Jesus imparted righteousness he has no power over us [Romans 8:1].

And all the time the Calvinists are singing "Great Is Thy Faithfulness" oh God my Father, even in the face of their God who is uncaring toward the non chosen ones. I was taught in school that the word 'faithfulness' and 'uncaring' were poles apart.

This post is in honor of Mark Osgatharp. It's sure nice to hear men of God like you telling the truth to the church and not this flagrant error and "B" word.

Are these ideas offensive to the true God of love, or what? I guess the serious minded John Calvin never got enlightenment from the Holy Spirit about the deep love of the Lord God for all lost sinners; because he used the words 'the love of God' very infrequently.

 

Rev Dr Berrian, Have you ever read The Sovereignty of God by AW Pink? Did you read it and verify each statement by the scripture reference? To speak of our most Holy God as you state in error that we believe is so very farfetched it is ludicrous! No one on earth upholds God's sovereignty with great reverence than those who believe the doctrines of grace! Please read this and confirm it in great earnest prayer to our Lord that He will bring you into all truth! Lay your pride at the cross and humbly submit to Him. He loves you and so do we!

 

The basic tenets of Calvinism are in line with the teachings of God. Therefore, there is no reason to choose between them.

 

I definitely agree with that and know it is true! What is it that makes the doctrines of grace such hated doctrines? It seems when the topic comes up that all nerves suddenly are charged with negative vibes!! Why is this so? Do we all hunger for truth and seek His face? Are we sealed against new insight that He brings to us? I learned of these doctrines late in life but was horrified at the response of my family and friends! Why object to something so totally wonderful, a sovereign God that owns and runs the world and all that live therin?
Blessings!

 

Mark and Ray-

The more I read from you, the more I realize that your problems with Calvinism arise in your ignorance to what it actually believes. When I said 'belief (the elect) and unbelief (the non-elect) are what Calvinism is all about' you say, 'no it's not' as if you know better than me or any of the other Calvinists here.

Do you realize how foolish it would be to go into a forum owned by some other religious group (we'll use Catholics for example since you like to frequently compare us to them) and tell THEM what what THEY believe without listening to them?

That's what it really comes down to folks- an inability to listen. All I hear from you Ray is- 'well this is what I heard in school, etc.' News flash- you're in the real world- not school. Why not listen to what we say rather than tell us what we believe according to your school.

And Mark- your basic misunderstanding comes in thinking that all unbelievers today must automatically be non-elect according to Calvinism. This is a misunderstanding, so I'll set the record straight. To God- only a portion of the unbelievers are non-elect and a portion are elect. To US they ALL appear lost. We don't know! You're so desperate to either know who they are or reject the whole system completely. To paraphrase Spurgeon- if the elect had a yellow stripe down their backs I'd be lifting shirts all day- but since they don't I preach 'whosoever will may come.'

Please stop generalizing- and please take a moment to read what we're saying and absorb before shooting at the hip. At the very least it's the respectable thing to do- and at the best it's a better debate tactic.

God bless.

Daniel Allen
www.spurgeon.us

 

Wow. very true. very good insights Thomas.

 

KenH,

Someone said, 'The basic tenets of Calvinism are in line with the teachings of God. Therefore, there is no reason to choose between them.'

In college you learn that this is a presupposition; a presupposition of a man who apparently smiles a lot. Again, this would be my presupposition.

RayB

 

Then where did Jonathan Edwards get off preaching about "Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God", and calling those sinners to repent? I guess he wasn't as smart as people make him out to be. It's really too bad that he didn't know what Calvinites really believe.

Believe whom you will, but you really ought to get more understanding before you write.

 

Jonathan Edwards was inconsistent with his theology. That's a good one.

All unbelievers stand in danger of eternal damnation until God calls them. After He calls they respond, and then they are no longer in danger. The fact that God will infallibly rescue them tomorrow does not lessen the danger that they are in today.

You and I were chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world; and yet we were lost, dead in our sins, etc., until we believed. I don't know why that is so difficult to understand.

 

That's nonsense. What does He infallibly rescue us from, if not danger? If we are not lost then how could we be saved?