1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The "Untouchables" or "unteachables"

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Ulsterman, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deacons are table servants. To quote the great Dr. Gill, "we read in the Scriptures of the ruling elder, but never of the ruling deacon."
     
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    0
    Divorce, greed, adultery, premarital sex, drug use (alcohol) . . . why not just preach against sin?

     
  3. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    Major B, the churches that get this right will generally have peace and harmony. Since you've been a pastor, would I be right that a big majority of the conflicts develop when deacons (or one or two deacons) forget their servant role?

    Tell me if I'm right that the congregation needs to be educated about the role of deacons just as much as the "ruling deacons" do.
     
  4. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen and Amen.
     
  5. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was interim at a church that called its deacons the "governors" of the church. I kid you not.

    On the whole, in my pastoral experience, I wouldn't say a big majority of the conflicts happen when deacons forget their servant role, but when deacons were not involved, they were often dragged in by people thinking the deacons were a board of directors.
     
  6. Gayla

    Gayla New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,738
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deacons

    Would those that have mentioned the proper role of deacons be willing to post a short 'lesson' or two on the subject?
     
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    This is my theory, mine alone, about how deacons came to be the "governors," as TomVols put it.

    As a rule, churches try to select deacons who are, or appear to be, the most spiritual men in the church. They are often the wisest men, the best students of the scriptures.

    Because of these qualities, members tend to look to them for counsel, drawing on their wisdom and knowledge. And, having received that counsel, tend to follow it.

    The ability to give wise counsel and have it followed can be a power trip. Before you know it, the congregation has simply ceded power and influence over to the deacons. When the deacons as a group recommend a course of action, a congregation will find it difficult to challenge it.

    It's a short trip from servants to rulers if the deacons and congregation aren't careful.

    Before long, you'll have deacons elected on the basis of their "leadership" skills, with diminished regard for spirituality.

    That's how deacons get power. The congregation gives it to them. Deacons need to have someone who constantly whispers in their collective ears, "thou art only a servant; thou art just a servant; a servant."
     
  8. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    I wouldn't offer this as the definitive proper role of deacons, but here are some attitudes our deacons practice.

    We're servants. We do not rule. We recommend.

    The pastor does not work for us. We work for him.

    The pastor is ultimately responsible for the church. His views should carry great weight. When he wants to do something, he should get the benefit of the doubt.

    We don't run the church. And part of our job is to head off those who think they should.

    We are to protect the pastor from those I mentioned in the preceding paragraph.

    If I have a disagreement with the pastor, he and I will be the only ones who know about it. Unless there is persistent heresy or flagrant misbehavior, of course.

    Since our deacons have practiced these things, we have had sweet harmony and unity in our church. Nary a church fight in a carload.
     
  9. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom, I'll PM you about some real specifics.

    Almost every conflict in churches is caused by deacons who don't know their place and pastors who know their place but find it barred by modern Korahites. As my pastor told one deacon from another church, who confronted him and said, "preacher, the Deacons run the church, right?"

    Ronnie said, "you have it half right, the deacons run FOR the church."

    As for educating the people, absolutely so, Tom. Probably the best two books on Biblical leadership in a local church are Biblical Eldership and The New Testament Deacon, both by Alexander Strauch. I have a series of messages on the subject as well.


    Charley
     
  10. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    I second that about Strauch's works. Mark Dever has some halfway decent material on deacons as well, but nowhere near as good as Strauch's, IMHO.
     
  11. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mr. Butler is very close on the whole deacon conflict issue. I'll simply add one other factor that adds to the elevation of deacon power. The average pastoral tenure in Baptist churches in the SBC is around 2 years. In IFB churches, it's even lower. So who can be counted on to be there through thick and thin? Yep..the deacons, who hold their office for life in many of these churches.

    I still believe it all comes down to poor theology and poor pedagogy. We have lost the Biblical teaching on the eldership, deacon role, and congregational role in church polity, and this has led to a demise in our practice.
     
  12. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    And, it appears that the NT church had pastor-elders who were largely home grown (as Paul told Titus in Crete to "...appoint elders in every city..."). The only movers were apostles and church planters like Paul, Barnabas, and their respective crews. As for the average tenure, don't forget that there is a bit of circularity there--the short pastoral tenures are often caused by the life-tenure deacons!

    IF there is a Biblical pluarlity of elders in a congregation, the departure of one of them for whatever reasons (positive or negative) will not cause a huge ripple, because the others will take up the slack. When I was an elder in a Baptist church in New Jersey (during my military days), the senior elder-pastor was granted a sabbatical leave. He met with us before he left and said, "you guys handle the preaching as best you see fit." And, we worked out a schedule AFTER he went on leave.

    Imagine that in a Southern Baptist congregation!
     
  13. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mr. Butler, a fine Christian gentleman of my aquaintance, is usually right on the spot!
     
  14. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    Major B, stop it! You are way too kind.

    I wish my comments about deacons came from some innate wisdom. Unfortunately, they came out of church conflict years ago, where I learned some bitter lessons, and determined never to repeat my mistakes.
     
Loading...