The upside of abortion

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Gina B, Jul 26, 2004.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    I'm really and seriously becoming disillusioned with most Baptist preachers. The more they talk, the less I'm listening.
    I'm sure ignorance is present in all denoms, but Baptist ones are what I know and what I hear when it comes to comments like this.
    I was listening to one the other day and he was speaking of abortion. What he said was more or less

    "...then we have women who have abortions. But there is an upside to abortion. All those babies are in heaven, where if they would have been raised by women like THAT they would have grown up and gone to hell".

    Where does someone get off making a statement like that?
    Can we have a show of hands of everyone who never did wrong before they were Christians? Are women who have had abortions unredeemable for the rest of their lives? Must they remain unforgiven because they had an abortion, but other wrongs are forgiveable?

    I heard a quote saying the biggest cause of atheism is Christians.
    I'm getting this close = to believing it!

    Gina
     
  2. Gina B

    Gina B
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    And BTW there is no upside! None at all. There's no upside to any sin. NONE!
    Gina
     
  3. Bro Tony

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    Biblical illiterates in our pulpits.

    Bro Tony
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Craziness - it would be just as logical to advocate the murder of babies who are born to lost mothers so they could be in heaven.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    um ... the murder of Jesus??? That certainly had an upside ... While aborted babies are in heaven, IMO, that does not justify their murder. This sounds like a dumb thing to say, especially from the pulpit.
     
  6. melony

    melony
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    Gina, I don't know what you were listening to, the radio, television or sermon in a church. But I would caution you about the radio shows you may be listening to. There are some real loo loos on the radio. Remember they purchase time and are only loosely monitored, emphasis on loosely. Try to stay with stations that air Swindoll or David Jeremiah, the other speakers will fall into the same category as these two reliable ministries. I have seen some good stuff and bad stuff on TBN. Larry Hutch has a bad presentation that aired last month 20 times about curses and generational curses and he was just plain wrong. A lot of "preachers" are itinerate, self educated, not graduates of theology or seminary. That makes a big difference on interpretation and presentation. If you were in a church and heard that remark, run girl run!! Find another church! But don't judge all the Baptists congregations on this experience. You want the preacher that grieves for the mother's delima and enlists his congregation to help her make the right decision and support. We are to help the widow, and in a way the unwed mother is a widow, and to help the orphans, that baby is also an orphan. Good luck Gina, don't let one nut case push you out of the boat.
     
  7. Jeffrey H

    Jeffrey H
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    Who are you listening to?
     
  8. Gina B

    Gina B
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    I wouldn't feel comfortable giving out this guys name, or the other ones that have done similar things around here the last couple of years.

    I would like to my thoughts known to him though, in the very near future. The only other time I approached a pastor over something he said was when one made what I saw as a pretty offensive racial comment/joke...after asking if any present were of that descent first but I didn't say anything because I wanted to see what he'd say. I was pretty thrown because I went to him quietly at the dinner we had afterwards, the only other person present in the immediate vicinity was the regular pastor of the church. The one who made the joke was very rude and loud causing everyone to stare, telling me that if I was offended it was my own fault and that he'd asked if anyone was there of that descent and I hadn't said anything and blah blah blah, I was shocked and embarassed and never went back, so my opinion now is that if the guy is ignorant enough to make such comments he's probably not the type that would take well to being questioned about it.

    This was the second time I heard this guy and wasn't too thrilled the first time either, so now I know to simply avoid hearing him in the future.

    I know I shouldn't let things like this sway me from Baptist churches in general, but it seems like most of them around here are of this nature. The one I go to isn't. There's been a few guest speakers but that's different than knowing people are sitting under this type of stuff every Sunday. It's even worse as a single female who will generally not be taken all that seriously by the majority of Baptist preachers around if concerns are brought up to them.

    Maybe I'm frustrated with Christianity as a whole lately. Not as in not having faith or anything, but disappointed that so many who proclaim to be teachers and preachers would use their words so carelessly. Whenever I'm in a place and hear stuff like this I look around at new believers, wondering if what was said hurt them or is going to affect their belief. About two years ago I brought a friend and then apologized to her after the sermon. I don't even remember what was said that time, but remember looking at her and seeing the shocked looked she had.

    Gina
     
  9. jle

    jle
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    From the portion of the context you share, at least the preacher did not use sccripture to try and back such a statement up. Wish I had the whole context.

    Just an opinion and they are like noses, we all have on.

    Then again, if we choose to look at the statement and ask ourselves what could it mean other than what I want it to (because I am not a fan of this preacher right now), we might get a whole context of something worthwhile.

    witness
     
  10. Paul of Eugene

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    Heavenly Father, we pray that you will open our eyes to more than just the shortfalling ways of some of our brethren but help us to see Jesus our Rock and how the church is founded on That Rock that shall never be moved; and help us Lord to bear our part of the task in keeping Your Church what you want it to be.
     
  11. superdave

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    To be honest, The only way I would agree with such a preacher would be if he was referring to his own children, more people have been destroyed spiritually by being parented by those who play fast and loose with Scriptural truth, and who use their "call" to justify offensive and innaproriate behavior than by a woman who would consider an abortion.

    Furthermore, is there any Biblical support that those babies will be in heaven?

    David talks about going to his infant son who died, but is that enough to base doctrine on? it is after all from a narrative passage.

    David also says "...in sin did my mother conceive me"

    I tend to agree with you Gina, I continue to be shocked and saddened by many who would like to call themselves Baptists.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Is abortion the unforgivable sin? NO. I still think the women could be saved by God if they are part of the elect.

    If I were prince of the planet, would I make abortion illegal and charge the mother with capital murder? Yep. In the end, she is no better than a common criminal who murdered her baby, and deserves to be executed for her crimes, IMO.

    Do Christians keep lost people from going to heaven? I don't think so. I believe that those whom God has predestined will go to heaven, and those who aren't won't.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. Corry Cox

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    Not to railroad this post but here is a good article by Albert Mohler on what happens to infants when they die.

    http://www.sbts.edu/mohler/FidelitasRead.php?article=fidel036

    Even though an aborted child goes to heaven, there is no excuse for abortion. That would be like saying, the best way to evangelse the world would be to kill all of the children that way they would all go to heaven. We all know that is absurd.
     
  14. melony

    melony
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    A woman should be executed for her "crime" ???????

    Then the man should be held accountable for assault with a deadly weapon. Isn't that currently punishable by 3-5 yrs in prison?

    We are now compeltely off the thread here. Gina is troubled by comments "such as the one she heard" needing to talk about discernment when hearing or choosing a pastor to lead.
     
  15. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
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    JLE

    I see you have migrated over here from the Baptist Life board. You may like this board better, but you wont have many fighting with you over here - so you might get bored (unless you like to get into the KJVO fights) I hope I continue to see you over at Baptist Life, they need a different POV over there.
     
  16. christopherbarny

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    Gina,

    I would suggest that you still tell that preacher what you thought and felt about it. You don't have to do it in person. Write a note. I believe that part of the grace and love we are to give to our brothers and sisters in Christ includes helping them to have an opportunity to take responsibility for sin. [​IMG]
     
  17. jle

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    Do you think the number you are thinking of (those who have been destroyed) is "more" than the number of children murdered through the process of abortion? I believe it is something like 1.5 million per year, on average, since 1973. In the neighborhood of 46.5 million children murdered.

    What is the scriptural truth you speak of for this issue concerning the Pastor's words?

    [ July 27, 2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: jle ]
     
  18. jle

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    Hi JimmyC,

    I won't be going back there.

    I don't need the fight but do enjoy the engaging discourse. One of the reasons I hung out there is because I was forum boxing with those guys since the early to mid 90's on SBC.net (now gone away).

    Personally I don' think I should have been banned for posting a direct quote from a web site, the moderator (one of them) was applauding, which glorified drunkeness.

    But then, It's his web site, he can do what he wants. He can have a link to a web site that glorifies drunkeness (even if it is at the choice of a forum member, to a point) then ban someone for mentioning it.

    I think it was a God move for me personally. He did what needed to be done to get me out of there.

    Enjoy,

    jle

    Edited to remove name.

    [ July 27, 2004, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
  19. superdave

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    If I read the post correctly, it was the pastor's implication that a woman who was in a situation where she would consider an abortion is an unfit parent who would condemn her child to a life of godlessness.

    I happen to believe that scripturally, even the son or daughter of an unfit parent who is a vile sinner has hope of salvation. At least I like to think my kids have a chance ;)

    The other issue scripturally is the actual destination of aborted babies

    This quote was an example of a preacher who shoots his mouth off with no adherance to reasoned, responsible exegesis of the Word.
     
  20. Heavenbound01

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    abortion to me is a sin,and I am totally against it. but if a woman chooses to do so, the baby will go to heaven i believe. she can be forgiven if she wants to give her life to christ. the only thing that you cannot be forgiven for is blasphmy.
     

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