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The USA should break off diplomatic relations with The Vatican.

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by church mouse guy, Aug 9, 2002.

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  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    The United States Ambassador to The Vatican should be recalled today. The Vatican is not a state but a religious organizational headquarters. It is improper for the USA to have diplomatic relations with the Roman Catholic Church. There is no American reason to continue this unfortunate practice.
     
    #1 church mouse guy, Aug 9, 2002
  2. Candide

    Candide New Member

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    Vatican City is an independent nation. By your reasoning, we should end diplomatic ties with the UK.
     
    #2 Candide, Aug 9, 2002
  3. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly New Member

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    Candide speaks my mind. Or did something change in the last 24 hours that I don't know about?
     
    #3 stubbornkelly, Aug 9, 2002
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    The Vacitan is the Roman Catholic Church. There are no citizens of Vatican City except for employees of the Roman Catholic clergy. Technically it is an independent nation, but realistically it is simple the headquarters for a church.
     
    #4 Baptist Believer, Aug 9, 2002
  5. Morat

    Morat New Member

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    Technicalities are the soul of the law. The Vatican is considered a seperate nation, even if a total theocracy. If only the US afforded it that status, that would be one thing.
     
    #5 Morat, Aug 9, 2002
  6. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    The U.S. never had formal diplomatic relations with the Vatican (although it always had very close informal contacts, and paid close attention to what the Vatican was thinking).

    Reagan implemented formal recognition of the Vatican to court American Catholics, who really had no interest in it.

    It's a non-story. I suppose that it's now politically impossible to reverse Reagan's move, since it is sure to be taken as a slap at the largest Christian denomination in America.

    Government by expediency, it is.
     
    #6 The Galatian, Aug 9, 2002
  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Cold war political moves to counter communism included some actions that were hypocritical at the time. Now that the cold war has ended, the passing usefulness of a cold-war political move has ended.

    The Vatican is opposed to religious liberty as defined by the U.S. Constitution because The Vatican has its own dogma on religious liberty in a nation. It is time to downgrade this place to its proper size--a minor geographical area inside Italy that is set aside for a religious headquarters although it functions as a medieval monarchy in a sort of grandiose, extravagant style. As was pointed out above, its residents are merely its employees.
     
    #7 church mouse guy, Aug 9, 2002
  8. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    It's less than a portion of Italy. It's a portion of a city. The recognition had no cold war implications. It was merely an attempt to curry favor with American Catholics.

    We didn't really care.
     
    #8 The Galatian, Aug 9, 2002
  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    President Reagan did what he did in order to help the Polish people against the Russian communists as much as possible.

    Mission accomplished!
     
    #9 church mouse guy, Aug 10, 2002
  10. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    Ah, the Soviet Empire collapsed because Reagan had diplomatic relations with the Vatican?

    Too bad Truman didn't think of that.
     
    #10 The Galatian, Aug 10, 2002
  11. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Well, I agreed with you on the Turks on the other board. President Truman, whom I saw in 1948 during his Whistlestop railroad campaign when he spoke in my hometown and who is the only President of the United States that I ever saw in person, never served with a Pope who was Polish.
     
    #11 church mouse guy, Aug 10, 2002
  12. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    :cool:

    If you want my opinion, it makes no difference. We had close contact with the Vatican before diplomatic ties were official, and I see no difference in our policies or theirs as a result of the change.
     
    #12 The Galatian, Aug 10, 2002
  13. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I would have thought that you would oppose diplomatic recognition of a church on First Amendment grounds as saying that it was the establishment of a church or it prevented the free exercise of religion.
     
    #13 church mouse guy, Aug 10, 2002
  14. Candide

    Candide New Member

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    It's Diplomatic Relations of A NATION. Vatican City, no matter how small, no matter how theocratic, is a sovereign nation. To say we cannot have diplomatic relations with them because they are also the head of a church is exactly like saying we cannot have diplomatic relations with the UK. If the Baptists formed a little enclave in the South Pacific that was officially recognized as an independent nation by the international community, that too would deserve diplomatic relations. The US certainly has no major conflicts with Vatican City, no more or less than most nations in Europe anyway.
     
    #14 Candide, Aug 10, 2002
  15. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    It's perfectly legal to have diplomatic relations with the U.K. or Saudi Arabia, both of which are at least theoretically theocracies.

    It means nothing to me whether or not we have an ambassador to the Vatican, but there are a good number of rightwing Catholics who will take any break in relations as a slap at them personally.

    Hence, it's become politically impossible for a republican to do so.
     
    #15 The Galatian, Aug 10, 2002
  16. Justified

    Justified New Member

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    I think that if the RCC has that they should have one for every other religion in the world. ;)

    Unless of course the RCC was considering becoming a World Power again! :eek:
     
    #16 Justified, Aug 10, 2002
  17. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Then let's elect the first democrat who will break off relations with the Nation of The Vatican. This must be the only religion in the history of the world to declare itself a Nation. And I am not so sure that England is a theocracy nowadays as has been claimed here.
     
    #17 church mouse guy, Aug 10, 2002
  18. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    England claims to be a theocracy, but in practice, it is mostly tolerant. People still have to pay for the established church,though.
     
    #18 The Galatian, Aug 10, 2002
  19. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

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    nom_de_cyber_guy

    I hope you dont mind but I copied and pasted your post over to the other religions forum where it is sure to get action. Check it out.
     
    #19 Ps104_33, Aug 11, 2002
  20. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    No, I don't mind at all. I think it was a good idea! You know this board a lot better than I do. It sure did get a lot of play.

    Thanks a lot!
     
    #20 church mouse guy, Aug 11, 2002
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