The USA should break off diplomatic relations with The Vatican.

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by church mouse guy, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    The United States Ambassador to The Vatican should be recalled today. The Vatican is not a state but a religious organizational headquarters. It is improper for the USA to have diplomatic relations with the Roman Catholic Church. There is no American reason to continue this unfortunate practice.
     
  2. Candide

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    Vatican City is an independent nation. By your reasoning, we should end diplomatic ties with the UK.
     
  3. stubbornkelly

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    Candide speaks my mind. Or did something change in the last 24 hours that I don't know about?
     
  4. Baptist Believer

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    The Vacitan is the Roman Catholic Church. There are no citizens of Vatican City except for employees of the Roman Catholic clergy. Technically it is an independent nation, but realistically it is simple the headquarters for a church.
     
  5. Morat

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    Technicalities are the soul of the law. The Vatican is considered a seperate nation, even if a total theocracy. If only the US afforded it that status, that would be one thing.
     
  6. The Galatian

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    The U.S. never had formal diplomatic relations with the Vatican (although it always had very close informal contacts, and paid close attention to what the Vatican was thinking).

    Reagan implemented formal recognition of the Vatican to court American Catholics, who really had no interest in it.

    It's a non-story. I suppose that it's now politically impossible to reverse Reagan's move, since it is sure to be taken as a slap at the largest Christian denomination in America.

    Government by expediency, it is.
     
  7. church mouse guy

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    Cold war political moves to counter communism included some actions that were hypocritical at the time. Now that the cold war has ended, the passing usefulness of a cold-war political move has ended.

    The Vatican is opposed to religious liberty as defined by the U.S. Constitution because The Vatican has its own dogma on religious liberty in a nation. It is time to downgrade this place to its proper size--a minor geographical area inside Italy that is set aside for a religious headquarters although it functions as a medieval monarchy in a sort of grandiose, extravagant style. As was pointed out above, its residents are merely its employees.
     
  8. The Galatian

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    It's less than a portion of Italy. It's a portion of a city. The recognition had no cold war implications. It was merely an attempt to curry favor with American Catholics.

    We didn't really care.
     
  9. church mouse guy

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    President Reagan did what he did in order to help the Polish people against the Russian communists as much as possible.

    Mission accomplished!
     
  10. The Galatian

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    Ah, the Soviet Empire collapsed because Reagan had diplomatic relations with the Vatican?

    Too bad Truman didn't think of that.
     
  11. church mouse guy

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    Well, I agreed with you on the Turks on the other board. President Truman, whom I saw in 1948 during his Whistlestop railroad campaign when he spoke in my hometown and who is the only President of the United States that I ever saw in person, never served with a Pope who was Polish.
     
  12. The Galatian

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    :cool:

    If you want my opinion, it makes no difference. We had close contact with the Vatican before diplomatic ties were official, and I see no difference in our policies or theirs as a result of the change.
     
  13. church mouse guy

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    I would have thought that you would oppose diplomatic recognition of a church on First Amendment grounds as saying that it was the establishment of a church or it prevented the free exercise of religion.
     
  14. Candide

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    It's Diplomatic Relations of A NATION. Vatican City, no matter how small, no matter how theocratic, is a sovereign nation. To say we cannot have diplomatic relations with them because they are also the head of a church is exactly like saying we cannot have diplomatic relations with the UK. If the Baptists formed a little enclave in the South Pacific that was officially recognized as an independent nation by the international community, that too would deserve diplomatic relations. The US certainly has no major conflicts with Vatican City, no more or less than most nations in Europe anyway.
     
  15. The Galatian

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    It's perfectly legal to have diplomatic relations with the U.K. or Saudi Arabia, both of which are at least theoretically theocracies.

    It means nothing to me whether or not we have an ambassador to the Vatican, but there are a good number of rightwing Catholics who will take any break in relations as a slap at them personally.

    Hence, it's become politically impossible for a republican to do so.
     
  16. Justified

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    I think that if the RCC has that they should have one for every other religion in the world. ;)

    Unless of course the RCC was considering becoming a World Power again! :eek:
     
  17. church mouse guy

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    Then let's elect the first democrat who will break off relations with the Nation of The Vatican. This must be the only religion in the history of the world to declare itself a Nation. And I am not so sure that England is a theocracy nowadays as has been claimed here.
     
  18. The Galatian

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    England claims to be a theocracy, but in practice, it is mostly tolerant. People still have to pay for the established church,though.
     
  19. Ps104_33

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    nom_de_cyber_guy

    I hope you dont mind but I copied and pasted your post over to the other religions forum where it is sure to get action. Check it out.
     
  20. church mouse guy

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    No, I don't mind at all. I think it was a good idea! You know this board a lot better than I do. It sure did get a lot of play.

    Thanks a lot!
     

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