The Vast Majority of Christian Denominations are Christian "cults"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Aug 11, 2016.

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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Mt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.....
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    The vast majority in the professing kingdom of God are lost professors according to Christ's prophetic knowledge of judgement day. He says "many" are on their way to hell and it is this same "many" he will repudiate on judgment day. In contrast, he says very "few" find the true way of salvation. The "many" are in this predicament because of the teaching/preaching ministry of false prophets (Mt. 7:14-21). Jesus claimed that the gospel being preached by the Jews of his day made their converts a "two fold more child of hell" than themselves. Paul made it clear that all who preached "another gospel" are accursed and the particular distinction between the gospel of Christ and "another gospel" is the doctrinal position on justification as Galatians chapters 1-4 contrasts justification by grace versus justification by works. This is the same contrast found in Romans 3:24-5:2.

    In the context of Matthew 7 the distinction is not found in the contrasting houses or circumstantial problems (rain,wind) but in the "foundation" upon which the houses are built. The difference is between solid rock and sand, which is a mixture. That mixture is expressed by those whom Christ rejects when they profess "Lord, Lord.....have we not done." In direct contrast those who are not rejected have accomplished the will of the Father. That will has been expressed from the beginning of his sermon as seeking and obtaining a righteousness (Mt. 7:5) that exceeds the righteousness of the religious do-gooders of that day, a righteousness equal to God's own righteousness (Mt. 7:46). The solid "rock" foundation is the righteousness of God found only in Christ.

    The pivotal point of the true doctrine of justification is "grace" defined as "without works" versus "grace" defined as inclusive of works with regard to justification by faith. However, the ultimate pivotal point is the final consequence which is the eternal security of true believers. The true doctrine of justification will "lose nothing" OF ALL that the Father has given Christ as "all" who are given by the Father will come to Christ by faith which means Christ shall "lose nothing" whereas the false doctrine of justification is ultimately revealed by its repudiation of eternal security of true believers determined ultimately by works rather than by grace.

    The acid test of the true gospel is that it obtains eternal life for all whom the Father has given to come to Christ by faith. The vast number of Christian denominations deny this acid gospel test and therefore are Christian "cults." I say it is the acid test because the only possible reason for "true" believers to fail to enter heaven is not failure on the part of Christ but failure on the part of the "true" Christian - meaning "bad" or "evil" works. Unbelief is an evil work. The only doctrine that supports the denial of eternal security of true believers is the doctrine that defines "grace" in justification as inclusive of works, and indeed that doctrine is essential for repudiating the eternal security of true believers. Hence, the acid test of true versus a false gospel is whether the ultimate consequence is anything other than heaven and ultimately determined by any work or lack of work performed by "true" believers. Remember, this is not an issue about whether or not one is a "true" believer, but whether a "true" believer can ultimately be lost - that is the acid test between the true and false gospel that is secured in the doctrine of justification by grace without works and can only be repudiated on the basis of the doctrine of justification inclusive of works.

    This is easy to prove as at least 60% of professed Christianity belongs to Catholicism (Roman and Eastern). The vast majority outside of Catholicism deny eternal security of true believers. This does not even account for those among true evangelical denominations who in spite of the true gospel have false professions due to easy believism and other factors. The fact that Christ says it is the "few" rather than the "many" that find true salvation proves the vast number of professed Christendom belong are not true Christians and thus cultic by profession. The vast majority of "Christian" denominations repudiate the essentials of the true gospel.

    I am saying that any denomination or church that repudiates the doctrine of eternal security of true believers is a cult as it denies the essentials of the gospel, and thus denies the most important doctrine in the Bible with regard to eternal consequences.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Aug 11, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
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  2. The Biblicist

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    The true gospel is not defined by biblical words but by Biblical definition of such words. Evangelicals and Catholics agreed on the language of the gospel but disagreed on the Biblical definition of that language.

    Grace that is defined as inclusive of works ceases to be grace in the Biblical meaning but is simply works (Rom. 11:6). So the verbal form of the gospel being preached does not necessarily make it the true gospel. The Mormon uses many of the correct Biblical terms for their gospel as does the SDA and Catholic but that does not make it the true gospel.

    The ultimate test of the true gospel is the doctrine of justification and how it is defined. If it is defined in any manner that ultimately makes possible the denial of eternal life to true believers than it is a false gospel due to its definition of justification which is the heart of the gospel of Christ.

    Any definition of justification by grace that makes possible the failure of true believers to enter heaven is "another gospel" by its ultimate consequences. The only possible definition of justification that could make possible the loss of salvation once truly obtained is the doctrine of justification by grace that is inclusive of our works, as only "our works" included in justification could make that possible.
     
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  3. Revmitchell

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    So anyone on this board to denies eternal security is lost?
     
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  4. The Biblicist

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    Where did I say that? Answer - nowhere! Can a true child of God become an enemy of the gospel by their theological perversion of it? yes! Is their profession suspect? yes!

    However, all denominations and churches that repudiate the doctrine of eternal security are "cultic" denominations as eternal security is simply the Biblical consequence of justification by grace without works. The promise of the gospel is present tense never ending possession of "eternal life." Those who deny it are enemies of the gospel as the only possible condition that could lose it once in possession is the doctrine of justification by works.
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    So then would you clarify your position by defining a cult. I, as do many many others, define a cult as those who are lost among other things so when you place someone in a cult status that implies they are lost.
     
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  6. The Biblicist

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    Revelation 18:4 demonstrates that saved people can exist in cults. God is not speaking from our perspective or from the perspective of those he describes but speaking from his own omnicient perpsective as he defines them as "my people".

    So no, being "cultic" or part of a cult does not necessarily mean you are lost. In fact, one can be a member of a Baptist church and be cultic without the church being a cult.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    No they can't
     
  8. Rippon

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    You are confusing categories. Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are not denominational. They have their sects --however, what is understood by the word "denominations" refers to the Protestant wing of professing Christianity.
    Hmm... that's a toss-up. I'd say it's more like 50/50.
     
  9. HankD

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    Please explain Rev.

    It seems to me that Biblicist is simply saying that an individual may belong to (or be a member of) a Baptist church and not hold to eternal security.

    I have know of these kind of folks.

    HankD
     
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  10. The Biblicist

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    Your fight is not with me but with God who explicitly said they not only can but are in Revelation 18:4.

    If you mean they can't be part of a Baptist church then explain all the departures from the faith in the Scriptures especially Acts 20:29-30 or the "brother" in 2 Thess. 3:6?
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    I am referring to any body of Christians joined together by a common creed or statement of faith or common catechism.

    Christ said "many" compared to "few". I think I will stick with him on this issue.
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    No he said they can be a member of a cult. He is calling fellow believers cults. Of course he has his own definition of that. He is intentionally using the most extreme rhetoric in order to defame those who disagree with him. I hold to eternal security. I Peter 1 3-5 makes it clear as does others. However, Calvinist rhetoric and character assassinations like the op is why people do not like calvinists.
     
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  13. The Biblicist

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    Don't misrepresent me please. I gave you Revelation 18:4 and the Reformers as well as many respectable interpreters at minimum interpret "Mystery Babylon" as false religion. God explicitly claims that true believers or "my people" are found in that metaphor for false religion.

    You still have yet to explain the departures from the faith, especially as defined by Acts 20:29-30 if indeed, such cannot be found in sound churches and you have yet to explain the "brother" that can embrace things contrary to the faith in so much to separate such from a true church as in 2 Thes. 3:6.

    I am not using "extreme rhetoric in order to defame those that disagree with him" but I am using Biblical based definitions to identify those who oppose the doctrine of justification without works by their redefinitions of Biblical terms. Saved or lost they are enemies of the gospel by their perversions of those definitive passages that separate truth from error with regard to the most important doctrine in scripture as far as your eternal destiny. I guess you would charge Paul with extreme rhetoric when he calls them "accursed" who preach a gospel of justification inclusive of works???

    Did not Paul suspect the salvation of those in the churches of Galatia who embraced that very form of gospel and doctrine of justification? Did not he call those who preached it not only "accursed" but metaphorical "dogs" to beware of???

    The problem today and on this forum is that many Baptists like yourself are afraid to draw the lines where the Bible draws them because they don't want to offend anyone. But primarily it is because they themselves have lost the definitive lines drawn by scripture so they cannot even see the perverted doctrine of justification and thus a perverted gospel presented by men such as W.T. Wright.

    The perversion or "devil" is always in the details not in the broad sweeps of rhetoric or use of Biblical terminology.

    Today when somebody professes to be saved, we have to ask them what they mean rather than what they said as what they say does not always mean what you think.
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Aug 11, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
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  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    C OF C WOULD BE ONE EXAMPLE.
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    My definition of a Christian cult is a body of people who oppose absolute essentials of the faith. The gospel, the doctrine of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works is an absolute vital essential of the faith. If you are wrong here with regard to your own profession you are on your way to hell and if you are wrong here in your soteriology and Bible teaching you are in opposition to the very essence of "the truth of the gospel" and therefore a true enemy of "the truth of the gospel."

    The only possible obstacle to the doctrine of eternal security of the true believer is justification conditioned upon or inclusive of our works. The doctrine of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone IS ETERNAL SECURITY of the true believer and they cannot be separated as one is the cause and the other is the absolute necessary consequence. To deny one is to deny the other.

    Believers can be confused, ignorant or misled but that does not change they are in open opposition to the truth of the gospel if they oppose either doctrine.
     
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  16. Earth Wind and Fire

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    BIB ......you are on the right track.....AKA, The Strait Gate/The Narrow Way.:Thumbsup
     
  17. TCassidy

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    Excellent, and a very true, point. I had a lady in our church in San Diego who swore up and down she was getting messages from God in her dreams. Some of them were very, very odd messages. She was a very nice lady, a good Christian servant of God and a great blessing to the other ladies in the church, especially the younger ladies. But she had this idiotic idea she got messages from God in her sleep.

    I tried to talk to her about it but she insisted she just knew her dreams were messages from God!

    She eventually left the church and hooked up with a spiritualist cult where everybody claimed to get similar messages "from God." Unfortunately, those messages often contradicted one another which resulted in some, literally, knock down drag out fights in their "services."

    After a couple years she came back to our church and presented herself as a candidate for membership. Her public testimony was "I was a fool. A dream is just a dream." She is still there being a blessing to the church and especially to the younger ladies. :)
     
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  18. The Biblicist

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    I had the very same experience with some members in a mission work up in southwest washington. However they left and joined a Southern Baptist Church a few miles away. Apparently, this was a charismatic Southern baptist church and the pastor had no problems with a lady who cut hole sin her walls in obedience to spirit impressions.
     
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  19. The Biblicist

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    BTW I didn't know about until I preached on the scriptures being the final and complete revelation of God. I was approached by her and and her adult daughter who share the common belief and experience of continuing revelation. When I did not cease teaching on that subject (I was in a series on that subject) they told me of their experiences and then tore down our mission sign which they allowed to be set up on the corner of their property on the main road. I found the sign in pieces in the ditch.
     
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  20. Van

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    Cults teach my way or the highway. Those that disagree are not only lost, they are tools of Satan.

    Consider the posts of the cyber bullies. The "f" presidential candidate (I would have said female,but someone deleted the email) practices the politics of personal destruction. He knows nothing, he is ignorant, he is unqualified. Same laundry list used by the cyber bullies. Their words have revealed their hearts.
     
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