The Vatican Bible

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Greatest I am, Jun 15, 2007.

  1. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am
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    Much of the division and fracturing of Christianity is caused by Biblical translations and beliefs.
    The Bible we know is a compilation of authors. The Vatican has possession of other, rejected works that were cut from the original selection.
    If these rejected books were available, I wonder if the work of translation and interpretation would be enhanced by making these books available?

    Regards
    DL
     
  2. Deacon

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    They'll know we are Christians by our bickering.... :(

    Are you talking about the Greek Pseudepigrapha?

    • Jubilees
    • Letter of Aristeas
    • Life of Adam and Eve
    • Martyrdom & Ascension of Isaiah
    • 1 Enoch
    • Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs
    o Testament of Reuben
    o Testament of Simeon
    o Testament of Levi
    o Testament of Judah
    o Testament of Issachar
    o Testament of Zebulun
    o Testament of Dan
    o Testament of Naphtali
    o Testament of Gad
    o Testament of Asher
    o Testament of Joseph
    o Testament of Benjamin
    • Sibylline Oracles
    • 2 Baruch
    • 3 Baruch
    • 4 Baruch
    • 4 Ezra
    • Psalms of Solomon
    • 3 Maccabees
    • 4 Maccabees
    • Apocryphon of Ezekiel
    • Greek Apocalypse of Ezra
    • Apocalypse of Zephaniah
    • Apocalypse of Sedrach
    • Apocalypse of Elijah
    • Testament of Abraham A
    • Testament of Abraham B
    • Testament of Moses (a.k.a, Assumption of Moses)
    • Testament of Job
    • Testament of Solomon
    • Testament of Adam
    • Lives of the Prophets
    • Jannes and Jambres
    • Joseph and Aseneth
    • History of the Rechabites
    • Eldad and Modad
    • History of Joseph
    • Aristeas the Exegete
    • Eupolemus
    • Pseudo- Eupolemus
    • Cleodemus Malchus
    • Artapanus
    • Pseudo-Hecataeus
    • Philo the Epic Poet
    • Theodotus
    • Orphica / Pseudo-Orpheus
    • Ezekiel the Tragedian
    • Aristobulus
    • Demetrius the Chronographer
    • Prayer of Joseph
    • Prayer of Jacob
    • Odes of Solomon
    • Pseudo-Phocylides
    • Ahiqar
    • Apocalypse of Daniel
    • Callisthenes
    • Theophilus
    • Hellenistic Synagogal Prayers

    Or the Apostolic Fathers?

    • The Epistles of Clement of Rome
    o The Genuine Epistle to the Corinthians (I Clement)
    o An Ancient Homily, commonly called the Second Epistle (II Clement)
    • The Epistles of S. Ignatius
    • The Epistle of S. Polycarp
    • The Martyrdom of S. Polycarp
    • The Didache, or Teaching of the Apostles
    • The Epistle of Barnabas
    • The Shepherd of Hermas
    • The Epistle to Diognetus
    • The Fragments of Papias
    • The Reliques of the Elders Preserved in Irenaeus

    All these are available, many of them on the Net.

    Rob
     
  3. Greatest I am

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    These and possibly others. The thing is is that The Vatican should play a more active role in decisions of value to the philosophy of the Church and file the rest in the dustbin. The average Christian who presently has a question of Christianity has no clue as to which denomination will have the answer. If too many answers are available then the pick a church mentality arises.

    Jesus, I think said that a house divided against itself must fall. The same applies to a church. If the Pope is to be effective He cannot hide. If He is to be for the people He must chosen by the people.

    Regards
    DL
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    What does he pope have to do with the church? What does the Vatican have to do with the Word of God?
     
  5. Greatest I am

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    The Vatican archives are not public and the Pope controls the Vatican.

    Regards
    DL
     
  6. rsr

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    Wow. There are several assumptions involved here (other than the obvious one C4K has mentioned.)

    You seem to think the Vatican has some treasure trove of proto-canonical books that have been withheld over the years. Why would you think that? The Vatican certainly must have a wealth of documents, but any books considered for the canon would have been written well before the ascendancy of the papacy, when the See of Rome was junior in scholarship and influence to the eastern churches.

    The records are pretty clear that the number of books seriously considered for the canon was fairly small to begin with. The differences among the Western, Orthodox and Protestant Old Testament canons are, given the amount of material available, fairly small. There is little question, on the other hand, of the books that should be included in the New Testament, whose canon has remained fixed - in all traditions - since no later than the early sixth century and was generally accepted in the West by the fourth century or earlier.

    The churches have in fact done what you have suggested. Protestants have, by and large, accepted the Hebrew canon for the Old Testament; the Roman church fixed its canon almost 500 years ago, and I think it would be odd that the Vatican at this date would change its mind. (If the Latin Rite church really wants to reconsider the doctrines made mandatory at the Council of Trent, there are a number of good suggestions aside from reconsidering the canon, which seems to me to be far down on the list of important items.) The arguments for inclusion of books in the Roman canon are no different now than they were five centuries ago.

    The unaccepted books have been swept into the dustbin. Breathing new life into spurious, and sometimes heretical, books that were long ago rejected by all the traditions would be a step backward, not forward. Those books may shed light on the beliefs of their periods, but they do not shed light on God's revelation.
     
    #6 rsr, Jun 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2007
  7. rsr

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    This may or may not be true; it really is not a subject for discussion in a Baptist-only forum.

    I am fairly certain the pope is not all that interested in what Baptists think he should do, and I doubt many Baptists are depending upon the pope for some vital revelation about the canon and the nature of biblical inspiration.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    What does that have to do with the Bible? Do you think the pope is stronger than God's ability to communicate with the world?
     
  9. Greatest I am

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    I thank you for the Up date in your other post. Just coming out a short time age and some of my assumptions need updates this is for sure but since coming out I have noticed many pointing to contradictions in the Bible that Church authority should have dealt with long age. Hence my suggestion for the Pope to get of His rump and give opinion on some of these contradictions. Though shall not kill and though shall not suffer a witch to live are only one small example.

    I believe that the Bible is the best road map to God.
    Jesus is the best guide.
    The less conflicting information in the Bible the better. All the past bickering has done is divide the Church. A clean clear Bible to follow might unite.
    Christian should mean one thing only. Not a large number of separate denominations.
    A house divided cannot stand.

    Regards
    DL
     
  10. Greatest I am

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    The Bible is the tool most used by God to communicate with man. The controller of the Bible then has the power to clear up or confuse issues.

    Regards
    DL
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Do you honestly think Rome controls the Bible?
     
  12. Greatest I am

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    Rome chose the books within the Bible. Is this not control.

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Who does control the Bible, if not God? Rome chose the books of the Bible???
     
  14. Greatest I am

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    Exactly.
    Rome chose the books. Rome took control.
    Are we now agreeing? Or am I missing somethig?

    Regards
    DL
     
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Rome has never controlled the Bible - I am not missing anything.
     
  16. rbell

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    The points I emboldened were completely ignored by Greatest I Am. When that is taken into account...case closed.

    Certainly no one is suggesting we "re-open the Canon," are they? To quote the great American John McEnroe, "you can't be serious."
     
  17. EdSutton

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    Actually, some have suggested exactly this, and unfortunately (for so many are easily led astray by some "new thing"), they were and are completely serious. e.g. "The Gospel of Thomas", "The Gospel of Judas", and even "The DaVinci Code" come to mind, quickly.

    Ed
     
  18. Greatest I am

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    I had no disagreement with the statements.
    What kind of comment were you expecting?

    Regards
    DL
     
  19. webdog

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    The Bible IS the Word of God, THE Roadmap...not the "best" roadmap.

    Jesus is THE ONLY WAY...not "the best" guide.

    I call for the removal of Greatest I Am from the BB. Even His screen name is misleading, as God isn't the "greatest" leaving other great I AM's...He IS THE GREAT I AM.

    It is clear from his many posts on here that he is trying to plant seeds of doubt and cause confusion amongst believers. Even his personal salvation statment has nothing personal in it.
     
    #19 webdog, Jun 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2007

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